Naturalization Questions

[misbris]

By a sheer stroke of good fortune, my grandfather, Angelo Briscione's, original naturalization papers literally fell to my feet as I was cleaning out a closet. The papers are dated 1923 and he and his 6 children, 5 daughters and my father are listed as well. Here are my questions:

1. My grandmother was alive and living with the family, yet the info for wife is crossed out. Anyone have any idea why?

2. On this basis, I believe I am eligible for Italian citizenship because my father was born in 1913. However, are my cousins eligible through their mothers? 3 daughters were actually born in Italy.

3. Now that I have the original papers, do I still have to get a recent copy for submission to the Consulate? (it would be Newark or NY, if that makes any difference)

I am so excited that I found these papers completely by accident. My advice to all of you is to keep searching, you never know what's going to turn up.

Mary Jo

[JamesBianco]

If your father was born in The United States in 1913, and his father naturalized in 1923 you are eligible for Dual-Citizenship via juris sanguinis.

The children born in Italy would not be eligible, nor would their offspring. They naturalized in 1923 with their father. Your father was already a US citizen by birth.

I have just begun collecting documents to apply myself. It is quite an undertaking and ordering all the vital records necessary can get costly (Ive just spent $400 ordering records and Apostilles from Massachusetts, Maine and Pennsylvania this past week alone! I wrote directly to each State Office of Vital Statistics at an average of $30 per document, and $10 for each Apostille from The Secretary of State in the appropriate state)

Good luck and keep us posted!

[BillieDeKid]

What a great find Mary Jo!!!! Congratulations and keep us updated on what steps you're taking and how it progresses.

[mler]

And the original naturalization papers will work just fine. Don't worry about losing them. This, they will return to you.

The Newark consulate is still accepting walk-ins, but this may change as it takes on additional counties and becomes a full-fledged consulate. You will have to make an appointment for NY (there is an on-line form), so if you will be applying there, schedule that appointment ASAP. Bear in mind that NY will not accept your application unless you can prove residency within their jurisdiction.

If most of your U.S. documents originate in NY, expect about a three-four month wait (although they did tell me they were updating their system). NJ documents should take less time.

Best of luck, and let us know if you have any questions. I've been to both consulates, so let me know if I can help.

About your grandmother--was she born in Italy or in the U.S.?

[mler]

One more thing--if you have your grandfather's original birth certificate from Italy, that will work just fine too.

[misbris]

Thanks for the info. I live in central NJ, so I thought Newark would be my best bet especially since all my other records will be coming from Newark as well. However, I just saw on line that there is a consulate in Trenton, NJ. So now I am totally confused.

Unfortunately, I don't have my grandfather's birth certificate from Italy, but I do have his original death certificate from Newark.

My grandmother was born in Italy, that is why I was so surprised that she was not on the naturalization papers. She didn't die until 1937 and her parents came here after she was born. I don't believe that they naturalized.

I thank you for your kind offer of help, I may take you up on it.

[mler]

I don't think Trenton is an option for citizenship. Most of the southern NJ counties will still have to use Philadelphia, but many of the central NJ counties are shifting to Newark this summer. We used to live in Somerset County, which was under the jurisdiction of Philadelphia, but that county will move to Newark. We now live in Sussex County, which has always been in the Newark jurisdiction.

It really doesn't matter where your documents originate. You must apply in the consulate that serves your jurisdiction. New York will not accept your application unless you can document NY residency (driver's license, deed, lease, etc.).

It is much easier to apply in Newark than it is in New York, because, at least for now, you can simply walk in. In one sense, though, New York is better. Newark does not grant citizenship until all your documents have been registered in your Italian comune, so you not only have to wait for Newark to process your documents; you then have to wait for your comune to do so. New York considers you a citizen and allows you to obtain a passport as soon as they approve your paperwork and send your documents to Italy.

The New York approach is the correct approach, but several other consulates follow the Newark model, so there is not much you can do about it.

If you have any questions, just let me know. Best of luck.

[mler]

It's me again. I just reread your post. You will need to get a new copy of your grandfather's original death certificate. All of the documents issued in the U.S. will need an apostille, and you can only get those for recently issued documents. For Newark (and NY) you will only need the documents from the Italian line (birth, marriage, death). You will also need a Declaration of Living Ascendant completed by your parent (if he/she is still living).

You're fortunate, though. The Naturalization Certificate is the document that is often the most difficult to obtain.

[JJOC1414]

misbris,

Regarding your first question about why your grandmother may have been crossed out, it could be because the Cable Act, otherwise known as the "Married Women's Independent Nationality Act", had just passed in 1922, the year before your grandfather's naturalization was finalized.

This could mean that when he started the process (declaring his intention), he had included his wife along with the children, but by the time he finished it, the new law basically said women had to do it on their own.

Just a guess, but I think it's a reasonable guess.

[misbris]

Wow,

I did not realize that the Cable Act was so early!!! That might just explain it. 8O

Mler, when you say the Italian line, do you mean just my father's side. I know I need his birth and marriage cert. Do I need my mother's birth certificate also?

I guess I am lucky that I still have family in the comune, maybe they will be able to speed things up at that end as well.

Another question, can my brothers and I all apply together, or does each person have to do it separately?

I really appreciate all the help I have been getting. This site and its members are the best!

[JJOC1414]

misbris, this wikipedia article spells out very clearly what documents you will need:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_nationality_law

Since you are going through the Father>Grandfather line, also this could be helpful:

http://www.italiamerica.org/id203.htm

In answer to your specific question about your mother's birth certificate, yes, you will need that too.

I'm working on the same thing through the Mother>Grandfather line, which has just the one additional condition that I be born after Jan 1st, 1948.

Good luck.

[JJOC1414]

I almost forgot, you and your brothers can do it together, and should for obvious reasons.

[mler]

Actually in both New York and in Newark you will NOT need your mother's birth certificate. I, too, applied through the paternal line. These are the documents I needed (the same at both consulates):

Grandfather: Birth, Marriage, Death Certificates, Naturalization Papers
Dad: Birth, Marriage Certificates, Declaration of Living Ascendant
Me: Birth, Marriage

My son also applied and simply added his own birth certificate. That's what your brothers would do as well, but this only works if you are all eligible to apply at the same consulate. (They will need marriage licenses too if they are married).

BTW, if you are applying in NY, you should indicate on your appointment request the number of people who will be applying. You want to be sure that they allocate enough time for a group application.

[misbris]

Thanks for the great information. I was hesitant about taking this step because of the paperwork, but I am taking finding those naturalization papers as a sign that I should not wait a moment longer.

My dad is deceased so I will need his death certificate as well. I'm going to get started with all my Newark documents first because I have various years of birth for my grandfather. Maybe the American documents will straighten it out before I start with the Italian ones. By the way do I need my grandmother's Italian birth certificate?

[mler]

Since your grandmother is not in the direct line, you don't need her birth certificate. For your father, you will complete a "Declaration of Deceased Ascendant," in which you affirm that he never renounced citizenship.