Delayed Birth Certificate

[CeruleanOcean]

Hi,

I have acquired just about all my documents to head to the consulate, even my great grandfather's birth certificate from Sicily in the late 1800's. However, the document proving the most difficult is locating my grandfather's birth certificate from the early 1900's in New York City. I'm not sure how a little town in Sicily 25 yrs prior has a birth certificate on record but NYC in the 1900's does not!

I contacted NYC, and searched all 5 boroughs in the year of his birth, 1908. I have his death certificate, which lists his birth as Brooklyn, 1908, his marriage certificate which lists his birth as Brooklyn 1908, but they came back with no records found. He had a social security number and according to the social security administration, he had to have had a birth certificate in order to get that social security number.

So one must have existed at one point I have recently learned about a delayed birth certificate which can be issued anytime after a child is 1 year old. The problem is without a year, is it possible to find that document It could be between 1909 and 1968 when he started to receive social security.

Has anyone else been in this situation Any suggestions on how to move forward I have what most consider the hardest documents to get; naturalization papers and birth certificate from Sicily and would appreciate any help. Grazie!

[lilbees]

Neither my grandmother nor her siblings had birth certificates when they applied for Social Security. I do not know how they were able to get their card. I have all of their applications but have not been able to learn what they used to document themselves. Their nirths occurred 1874, 1876 and 1886. They were all home births.

I have not been able to find out whom to address this issue withing the SS administration. If you have a name or department that I may address this to I would appreciate it. I have heard many stories i.e. having someone vouch for you to using church baptisms or some other document.

Again, this is good old New York that is the problem. It has cost a lot to have searches done. The same with New Jersey. They seem to not have a statewide database to look anything up. It has to be county by county or city by city and everyone wants to charge a minimum of $15 to $20 for a minimal search. It all really adds up.

lilbees

[CeruleanOcean]

I know, this whole process is completely ridiculous. I actually got my great grandfather's birth certificate for free within 2 weeks from Sicily. IF NYC can actually find the document, they have you go to 3 different offices for an Apostille. The process in NY is incredibly inefficient, time consuming and expensive when it actually works. When it doesn't, arrgghhh.

When I spoke with the SS Administration, I called the main SS number and spoke with an individual. The number I called was 1-800-772-1213. You may want to try this office.

Best of luck! BTW, have you come across any information regarding delayed birth certificates?

[carmine1917]

If he were not Italian and persistent we would give up when dealing with some people in NYC. But we don't give up, we are Italians and persistent, no matter where you are in America. If our ancestors could come here on a crappy ship, than we can keep searching for their records.


This is the best example of NYC records office laziness:

One friend was told that Vital Records found no birth record for her father and kept her 30 bucks. They said maybe the midwife or doctor did not report the birth. She than contacted the army, he was in the military, and they said you needed a birth certificate to get in the military. So she went to the NY Public libaray to find her fathers birth index number, and found it, she had the correct year. She than went back to Vital Records and gave them the birth index number, I am waiting to hear if she gets his birth certificate and I think she should get her money back.

My suggestion is this-go to the NY Public library, the microfilm room. They have an index of birth records in books and on microfilm. Or go to Chambers street, look for the marriage record of the parents, it will say the Church they were married at and maybe, just maybe this will be the same Church their children were baptized in.

Also contacting St Louis archives if your relatives were in the military may help.

Seriously, I am relieved to know I and some friends and aquaintaces are not the only ones dealing with NY.

[CeruleanOcean]

Micheles, I like your attitude! I'm actually in Michigan trying to do this via mail, which I think makes it all the much worse. My father and uncle served but my grandfather didn't, so there wouldn't be any military records for him. I had not heard of the birth index number before and may be another route to go.

And trust me, I'm not going to give up so easy. I may actually make a trip to NYC, take in a few sites and really delve into this whole mess in person.

BTW, have you ever heard of the delayed birth certificate before?

[carmine1917]

No, what is a delayed birth certificate? I have heard that some places are sending out a new type of birth certificate, but you have to ask specifically for the old book format, which has more info.

Call the NY public library at 42nd street, the microfilm room has book and microfilm on birth index, see if they will look for you. They also have a genealogy room, call them.

[lilbees]

In doing the search for a birth record for my grandmother in New Jersey, they were kind enough to send me a form so I could apply for a delayed birth certificate.

For some reason, this did not seem right to me. I, in fact, I did not have any proof that my grandmother was really born in New Jersey except for what she put on all her paperwork throughout the years. Her mother was deceased in 1896 and father deceased in 1924. Only one of her siblings even knew about her and that was her only sister (b. 1876). Her only brother (b. 1874) was living on the west coast and had no knowledge even of her birth (b. 1886). There was little or no communication between the family members during those years unlike today where we have phones, etc. Only mail!

lilbees

[johnnyonthespot]

No, what is a delayed birth certificate?

From http://www.state.nj.us/health/vital/faq.shtml#BIR

What is required to file a delayed birth certificate?

In order to request a delayed report of birth, you must first file an application requesting the birth certificate to ensure the record is not on file. If no record is found, you will receive a No Record statement, which must be returned with a letter of request to place a delayed report of birth on file. You will receive a questionnaire to complete so that a more detailed search can be completed. You will also need to provide documentary proof that the birth took place. Documentary proof will be reviewed and a determination made. Please contact the Record Modification unit toll-free at 1-866-649-8726 extension 581 for further information.

Most states seem to have a similar mechanism for creating a missing birth record. The level of proof required varies but is usually substantial, for obvious reasons.

[kontessa]

I had a delayed birth record created for my GF, born 1908 in NYS. He also had a SS card and was in the military. I turned the entire state upside down searching - personally searched at historical societies, dozens of town/city clerks' offices, county archives, the state library and their databases, vital records, churches, etc. It didn't exist. I asked an attorney if it could be done. I was told no. Then, one day I sat flipping through a town clerk's record books - performing one last search - and I discovered a birth record that had been created for an individual 60 years after their birth. I asked for a copy of the record, blacked out the name, and presented it along with my request to NYS for the creation of a delayed birth record for my GF. I had one about 8 months later.

Reminder, this was NYS, not NYC. They are two different entities. Don't give up.

If you know the individual's SS# you can order the Numident and the actual application. If you don't know the SS#, sometimes it is listed on a death record, a will maybe, estate records, sometimes a spouse's death record. The SS records may give clues to an actual DOB. Also, old school records can be useful if you can dig them up.

[CeruleanOcean]

Kontessa, can I have you send me a copy of that template? I may need to go that route and it would be nice to have something to show an attny. I think I am about to that point. NYC agreed to do a second search and I sent them copies of all the documents I have, but if they still come up with nothing, I'm nearing a dead end.

[mkaysm]

I have been unable to find my GM birth certificate in NYS and would really appreciate a copy of that document as well. I am sort of at a dead end if I can't get that info. I do have her SS#.

[kontessa]

Sorry for not responding sooner, but I just now read the first request for a copy of a template for a delayed birth certificate. Do you mean a copy of the delayed record that I found or a copy of the record that NYS created for my GF? The two records look nothing alike, and I'm sorry to say that my only copy of the record I discovered was submitted to NYS.

I'll need to edit personal data on the delayed birth record for my GF, and I would gladly provide a copy if you think it might help. Keep in mind though, that the record was for NYS, not NYC and I was required to provide supporting documentation to satisy NYS in order to prove his actual DOB - records that I mentioned in my earlier post.

[johnnyonthespot]

I have been unable to find my GM birth certificate in NYS and would really appreciate a copy of that document as well. I am sort of at a dead end if I can't get that info. I do have her SS#.

If your grandmother is not in your direct-line of ancestors, you can probably safely forget about this document entirely.

Many of us have found that, despite consulate websites to the contrary, the consulates have no real interest in birth or death certificates for persons not in the direct line. In my case (GF -> Father -> myself), the New York consulate did not ask for nor even look at my mother's birth certificate or my grandmother's birth/death certificates.

Others have reported the same experience.

[sforza]

He had a social security number and according to the social security administration, he had to have had a birth certificate in order to get that social security number.

Has this been confirmed? My GF had a social security number. He does not appear to have had a birth certificate. We do have his baptismal certificate from the church. Is it possible he used this for a SS#? I ask because I'm preparing for a court order compelling the county to create a birth cert for him in PA. If having an SS# means having had a birth cert, I will pivot and instead try harder to find it. The town he was born in is actually in two counties. Both counties responded to my written request that there was no record.

[sforza]

He had a social security number and according to the social security administration, he had to have had a birth certificate in order to get that social security number.

Has this been confirmed? My GF had a social security number. He does not appear to have had a birth certificate. We do have his baptismal certificate from the church. Is it possible he used this for a SS#? I ask because I'm preparing for a court order compelling the county to create a birth cert for him in PA. If having an SS# means having had a birth cert, I will pivot and instead try harder to find it. The town he was born in is actually in two counties. Both counties responded to my written request that there was no record.