immigration to new orleans....question

[tmajor]

I was looking through some ship lists on rootsweb that didn't cost me to look at, and I managed to find my g-grandmother's siblings coming over from italy to new orleans on the ss italia may 23 1892. She was born in LA in 1898, so I know her parents came over at some point between 1883 and 1898 because her next oldest sibling was born in 1888. The siblings were 11, 9, 7 and 3 when they came over. Would parents send their kids over on a ship by themselves? I looked at all the other ships coming in those years and couldn't find her mom or dad on them. (or maybe i'm missing some, but there were quite a few free ones to look at on rootsweb during that time). Her mom's name was Francesca Lombardo and her dad's name was Antonio Graffagnino. I did see another Lombardo on the same ship as her siblings, a Caterina Lombardo that was 40 years old. Her mom and dad were both born in about 1856 or 1857.
Thanks.
Trisha

[VaDeb]

Hi Trisha,

Children did not immigrate by themselves. Are the pages you looking at transcriptions of the manifests or actual images of the manifest? I suspect they are transcription lists.

But now you know the date of immigration and the ship they arrived on. If you get the microfilm (National Archives or LDS) you can view the actual image of the page. The children will be traveling with an adult, probably at least their mother.

Remember transcriptions are secondary sources. Always consult the original source for the best information

Debbie

[tmajor]

ok, i was looking at a transcription. thank you for the information. on the manifest they will actually be listed together then and how they are related?
trisha

[VaDeb]

Hi Trisha,
The manifest will show who the children are traveling with. Normally the adult is listed first and the children below. The manifests from 1892 don't have a column for relationship. Name, age, sex, country of origin is some of the information. Usually the town they are from in not noted either.

Debbie

[mfjp]

Hope this helps

Name:   Antonino Graffagnino
Arrival Date:   3 Nov 1890
Estimated Birth Year:   1857
Age:   33
Gender:   Male
Port of Departure:   Fiume, Naples, and Trieste, Italy
Destination:   New Orleans
Ship Name:   Belgravia
Port of Arrival:   New York
Nativity:   Italy
Line:   22
Microfilm Roll:   558
List Number:   1646

Here's the manifest

http://img56.echo.cx/img56/8083/francesca4uj.jpg

The surnames you mention are scattered about... I thought it might be Francesca on line 738... but it is a Francesco Lombardo...

There is another Lombardo and Antonino Graffagnino near the middle of the page... (see the check mark)...

Will check further....

mfjp

[tmajor]

mfjp
thank you so much! i am so excited finding out all this information. that's interesting to know that they came over two years before their children did. must have been hard.
trisha

[mfjp]

I was looking through some ship lists on rootsweb that didn't cost me to look at, and I managed to find my g-grandmother's siblings coming over from italy to new orleans on the ss italia may 23 1892.

Was hoping they went through Ellis instead... I checked the S.S.Italia ship arrivals for May 1892 just in case... but none in May.

This makes me crazy sometimes... the Louisiana boat records are such a secret... even with a paid subscription to Ancestry.com.. you can't access them unless you go to the Family History Center and order film...

We have Antonino's ship record, you have info as to when and what ship the siblings were on....(which is great...)

So where would Francesca Lombardo's ship record be??? She should be on that same ship record with her children...? Caterina Lombardo - age 40 (b1852)... could have been an aunt ?

mfjp

[tmajor]

Since I'm pretty new to all this, i'm just trying to figure it all out. I didn't realize that you couldn't access the Louisiana boat records. Luckily I live in Houston and am not too far from LA. I'm hoping to make it to the FHL today or tomorrow, and also just found out there's a big genealogy library downtown here. So I'll look up those ship records. Thing is, the Caterina very well could have been an aunt...we don't have any info on Francesca's family. And yesterday I just found out that I can access the US Census records from home through our local library database, but couldn't find any information on them there either. I may have to try looking again. I was on all day yesterday looking at the census records and did find some information I didn't have earlier.
trisha

[Essgee]

Hi....

I am betting that the mother of the children is Cecilia Clemente. If you look at the New Orleand death records...Frances Graffagnino died in 1949 at the age of 77. Makes her born in 1872/73. Not likely to give birth in the mid 1880"s.

Now, Frances is listed in both 1920 and 1930 census as a widow. Also states she arrived in 1890/91 according to which census you look at. She is naturalized as well in both census listings. However, she could have been naturalized by marriage to her husband or by his naturalization doucments.

I would attempt to follow one of the children who were on that ship and see if you can find a death record that lists the name of the parents. Sometimes the children or the grandchildren are responsible for filling out the mother and father for a person's death record and they did not know the names...if they knew Frances as the grandmother they knew, they might not be aware she was the second wife of a man.

Not sure if this applies, but I would consider it based upon the records that I saw. Good Luck

[tmajor]

ok, you know what...i just found cecelia clemente on one of these graffagnino family trees that my cousin gave me, but all the children are listed under the francesca lombardo. so thank you for that insight! but i'm still not sure about the frances that you found, because the one i have from my cousin lists her as dying 12 may 1934 and being 77 years old. maybe she got the date wrong. so would i need to get a death certificate of one of the other children just to verify that they were cecilia's? and then what about frances? she is my ggrandmother's (francesca also) mother. thank you again for all the help.
trisha

[suanj]

Hope this helps

Name:   Antonino Graffagnino
Arrival Date:   3 Nov 1890
Estimated Birth Year:   1857
Age:   33
Gender:   Male
Port of Departure:   Fiume, Naples, and Trieste, Italy
Destination:   New Orleans
Ship Name:   Belgravia
Port of Arrival:   New York
Nativity:   Italy
Line:   22
Microfilm Roll:   558
List Number:   1646

Here's the manifest

http://img56.echo.cx/img56/8083/francesca4uj.jpg

The surnames you mention are scattered about... I thought it might be Francesca on line 738... but it is a Francesco Lombardo...

There is another Lombardo and Antonino Graffagnino near the middle of the page... (see the check mark)...

Will check further....

mfjp

Hi mfjp: in effect is Francesco LOMBARDI( no Lomabardo) and clearly male....
baci, suanj

[tmajor]

essgee,
i found the information you were talking about on the 1920 census, but the records i can access for 1930 aren't indexed. can you help point me in the right direction so i can look at those too? like if you have a roll # and page # maybe? and according to the 1920 census, there are other children that we didn't have listed on the family tree.
trisha

[Essgee]

Tricia.....

It might be the case that I have the wrong Frances. I discovered in the 1920 census that the children listed on the manifest are in Texas...not LA. Now, did the entire family move to Texas?

Do me a favor and give me the name of Antonio's children....and the year of birth. Maybe by tracking one of them back, we can find the family in the census. If the Frances I found was incorrect, I have know way of knowing because of the chilren listed, none are the ones on that ship.

Need to make a connection to be sure I have the right one.

[tmajor]

I think you might still have the right frances and maybe there were children we didn't know about since we didn't realize there were two different mothers. Antonio and Cecilia's children that came over with Cecilia in 1892 to New Orleans were Giocchino born 1881, Nicolina born 1883, Carmelo born 1885, Antonio (no date, died as an infant), and Stefano born 1888. Then I also have another antonio with no date of birth but looks like he died in 1948 and then Francesca who was born in 1952. I know her mother was the Francesca Lombardo. And I know she was on the Texas census in 1920 married to Joseph Piazza and was 20 at that time. And Antonion Graffagnino I have that he died in 1921, but that date could be wrong and he could have passed away before the 1920 census. And I do have that he and Francesca died in Texas, so I'm sure the family did come over here, just not sure at what point. Thanks for all the help. I wouldn't be too surprised if this is the right Frances on the 1920 census.

Trisha

[Essgee]

Trish.....

I found this:

In 1910 in Saint Mary, LA 5th Ward

Graffaginino, Toney age 54, arrived 1891
--------------, Frances L, age 53, had 9 children, 6 living, arrived 1891
--------------, Peter, age 25, born Italy, arrived 1891
--------------, Toney, age 16, born LA
--------------, Francis, age 11, born LA

Then, in 1900 found this:
Orleans, LA, Ward 5 ED 111 page 16 B
Indexed under the name Graphina

Graphina, Samuel, Born April 1866, age 33, married 14 years
----------, Francis, born Nov 1870, age 29, married 14 years had 5 children
5 children living
----------, Mary, born Feb 1888, age 12 born Italy,
----------, Anthony, born Sept, 1891, age 9, born Italy
----------, Angelina, born Dec 1892, age 7 born LA
----------, Lulla, born March 1895, age 5
----------, Re??, daughter, born April 1895, age 3

same dwelling, different household
----------, Peter, born June 1837, age 62, married 25 years, arrived 1890
----------, Angelina, Born Oct. 1843, age 56, married 25, years, had 3
children, 3 children living, born Italy, arrived unk.
----------, Marie, born August 1881, age 18, born Italy, arrived unk.
----------, Peter, born August, 1886, age 14, born Italy, arrived unk.
----------, Tony, born Oct. 1894, age 5, born LA

HOW IS THIS FOR CONFUSING?

The 1930 census lists under the name Graffagnino the kids listed under the name Samuel Graphina in 1900. ED 36-165, page 21B. However, the age in 1900 would make Francis 77 around 1948/49. The Francis listed in the 1910 census, would be 44 aroudn 1931/32 or thereabouts, so this might be the once correct census listing.....it is difficult.

Too many cross over names and not specific info. As to which is which, need the names of all the sisters and brothers as well as the name of person who is your direct ancestor.......and where they lived in from 1910 to 1930...if you know.........