I need help

[conno11]

I do not actually. But when I took my DNA test I saw that someone with a 96% that is my family lived in New York so maybe New York

[conno11]

And I dont any Italian Yes I know shame but for 10 euros might be worth it

[Tessa78]

Here is the birth record in 1859 of Alessandro Pietromonaco in Vinchiatura
The mother's name agrees with the name on the marriage record I posted earlier.
Father's name agrees with the deceased grandfather identified on the birth records of Carmine and Giovanni (1887 and 1890) and also with the name of his father on his marriage record.

link to record #25 - right side of image
Dated 15 February 1859 in Vinchiatura
Presentation to the official was made by Modestina di Ioia, the midwife
Father: Giovanni Pietromonaco, age 42, peasant farmer (puts his birth about 1817)
Mother: Primitina Pietromonaco, age 38, his wife (her maiden name was same as married name)
Child was given the name ALESSANDRO
He was baptized on the 15th in the Parish Church in Vinchiatura

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

This ancestor line...
Giovanni (~1817) -> Alessandro (1859) -> Carmine/Herman (1887) -> Herman (1920)

T.

[Anizio]

(her maiden name was same as married name)

T.

Sometimes thats not necessarily true, I've seen it in my own families records that its recording the same one time, and the for other children the mother has a unique maiden name.

Might be worth checking the birth records of some other children or her birth record to be sure.

[Tessa78]

(her maiden name was same as married name)

T.

Sometimes thats not necessarily true, I've seen it in my own families records that its recording the same one time, and the for other children the mother has a unique maiden name.

Might be worth checking the birth records of some other children or her birth record to be sure.

I actually already checked the other children, that is why I made the statement
And the index usually has the correct surname for the mother...
They are also listed with the same surname in the marriage record of Alessandro and Maria Di Sarro.
But I am glad you are keeping me "on my toes"


BIRTH of sister of Alessandro... Filomena Pietromonaco in 1857
#74
Father: Giovanni Pietromonaco
Mother: Primitina Pietromonaco

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

AND of brother, Gabriele, in April 1855
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

And this earlier Gabriele, born 25 December 1851.
#124 on left side.
In this record we learn that Giovanni is the son of deceased Alessandro
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

T.

[Anizio]

It appears you're right. I found her birth certificate

Born May 30, 1822. Daughter of Francesco Pietromonaco (son of Domenico) and Maria Carmela Petti (age 27)

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

[Tessa78]

It appears you're right. I found her birth certificate

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

That's Great!
It shows that Primitina's father was Francesco Pietromonaco, son of deceased Domenico, and he was age 31 - putting his birth about 1791?
And her mother was Maria Carmela Petti, age 27, his legitimate wife.

Here is another earlier Gabriele, born to Giovanni and Primitina Pietromonaco
Born 31 August 1850
#113 - right side
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0


EDIT TO ADD:
Using the information you found about Primitina's parents...
Here is the record of the Solemn Promise to Marry between Giovanni Pietromonaco and Primitina Prietromonaco on 6 April 1847 in Vinchiatura
Giovanni was 28, son of deceased Alessandro, and of living Olimpia Baratta, residing in Vinchiatura.
Primitina was 27, daughter of Francesco, and of deceased Maria Carmela Petti.

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 2.jpg.html

BIRTH RECORD of Giovanni Pietromonaco in 1819 in Vinchiatura
#12 - left side
Birth on 20 January 1819
Father: Alessandro, 36, son of deceased Domenico
Mother: Olimpia Baratta, 32, his wife
Child given the name GIOVANNI

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

***This gives you another generation back

Domenico (DOB?) -> Alessandro (~1783)-> Giovanni (~1817) -> Alessandro (1859) -> Carmine/Herman (1887) -> Herman (1920)

A lot to look over!!!

T.

[conno11]

WOW THIS IS GREAT! I thank both of you putting the time to help me with my family this is awesome thanks guys if any new research comes up let me know!!!!!!

[conno11]

I actually have a question you say Father: Giovanni Pietromonaco, age 42 Mother: Primitina Pietromonaco, age 38, his wife. How can her Maiden name be the same as her married name????

[Anizio]

Italian law generally provided at the time that there must be 7 generations of separation between parties before they are sufficiently unrelated to have a marriage. Special dispensation were provided in special circumstances.

The only way to know which is correct, or how related they are would be to trace each family line back as far as it goes until you reach a common ancestor. It could be there is 2 generations separation between them or 15, the only way to know is to search.

Depending on the ability to find records this question could be answered using the online records already mentioned, especially using marriage records which can sometimes contain records doing back to 1700s or earlier in the allegati (attachments).

[Anizio]

Also, if you PM me your email, Iowavette on Ancestry.com would be willing to get in touch with you to discuss and share family history. He may have a better picture than the one I provided.

[conno11]

So they were related?????

[Anizio]

Don't overthink it, theoretically they were related at some point. But the thing about genealogy is, eventually you realize that over time some people in your tree have to start filling multiple spots - if they didn't you would have to have something like billions of ancestors by the year 1000AD (and there weren't that many people, so there must be a lot of overlap )

They may have been related, but they may also be 200 years removed, which means while the name is the same the shared DNA is so tiny it means nothing.
Take this chart: http://ancestry.kurifuri.com/blog/expon ... mily-tree/
As you can see from it, once you hit 30+ generations back you are into the billions of ancestors....but you don't have billions of ancestors, you have maybe hundreds of thousands if that. Which is what leads to the saying "either all Italians are descended from Julius Ceasar, or none are" - basically meaning that once you hit a point, you are almost related to everyone of a particular ethnic group and the entire group becomes your ancestors at which point genealogy switches to anthropology.

This may be getting a little complex for our purposes, but basically just don't overthink it just because they may be related at some point down the line.

But if you want to be sure its not recent enough to be inbreeding or something, I'd trace them both back as far as you can - which will require Italian and Latin reading skills, or at least google translate.

And most of all, remember: when you do genealogy you sometimes discover things you wish you didn't

[conno11]

True that Yes I will try and trace them both back to see where it was

[adelfio]

Heres the Matrimoni, processetti for Giovanni Pietromonaco and Primitina Pietromonaco there are some parents death records that will give you some dates Just go through the pages
PG LINK TO RECORDS
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

Marty