The residency requirement is one that is for the length of the marriage, not for residency in a specific place. For those who reside outside of Italy, the length of marriage requirement is a bit longer--three years--than for those who reside in Italy--two years. The intent of the law was to make easier for those who actually reside in Italy to qualify. The law is clearly being misinterpreted in this case. The length of marriage requirement has already been met.
It does not matter if the comune knew the Italian citizen (in this case, the wife) before she moved to Italy. Her recognition as an Italian citizen, which she obtained at her local consulate, established her citizenship from birth, and she has no need to meet any registration requirement to file a petition on behalf of her husband either in Italy or outside of Italy at an Italian consulate as long as she resides in the district.
That spouses of Italian citizens often do not receive citizenship after two years has little to do with the length of marriage requirement. The law allows the spouse of an Italian citizen living in Italy to apply after two year of marriage. Often the paperwork requirements and the timing of the various police reports prevent a timely filing of an application. After the application is filed, there is a two to three year wait before citizenship is granted. I think this explains your friends' situations.
In this case, the comune is simply misreading the law by focusing on one sentence and not the rule in its entirety.
BTW, the length of marriage requirement both in and outside of Italy is reduced to 18 months if the couple has a child. I'm guessing that Italian authorities recognize the legitimacy of the marriage once a couple has children.
Divorce and citizenship
Re: Divorce and citizenship
I doubt there is anything petitioner can do to force the Comune to comply. For example, residents near Aviano don't want the US airforce base there. The Comune, however, says it stays. So they are stuck with it. When I go back with my new husband, we won't have to wait. I've been a resident of my Comune for nine years and only recently put myself on the AIRE list. But I'm well known in the Comune, paid my taxes there, have utilities in my name, on the national health insurance, etc. It makes a difference. You can say what you want. The Comune makes the rules.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
In addition, voted in my Comune. Renewed Italian passport in my Comune. Italian passport now lists issuing authority as a Comune in Italy -- not a US Consulate.
Turn the situation around. Italian friends in Italy have a son born in USA. They took him back to Italy when he was one month old. He never lived in USA again but just got an American passport. Do you really think he can bring his unknown wife to USA and apply for her citizenship immediately? Every foreigner/immigrant in the USA has a residency period, married or not. Why do you think Italy/European Union should work any other way?
Turn the situation around. Italian friends in Italy have a son born in USA. They took him back to Italy when he was one month old. He never lived in USA again but just got an American passport. Do you really think he can bring his unknown wife to USA and apply for her citizenship immediately? Every foreigner/immigrant in the USA has a residency period, married or not. Why do you think Italy/European Union should work any other way?
Re: Divorce and citizenship
jenabet posted: "Every foreigner/immigrant in the USA has a residency period, married or not. Why do you think Italy/European Union should work any other way?"
. . .because every country determines it's own laws, and those laws are not necessarily similar to those in the US. It's not productive to try to compare Italian citizenship laws to those in the US. They are considerably different, and it is Italian law that applies. Remember that Italy is a jure sanguinis country, and all its citizens have equal rights no matter where they reside. The US is a jus soli nation, and its citizenship laws for spouses and children reflect a jus soli philosophy.
The comune makes and enforces municipal law, which is why it can determine the land use within the municipality. The comune does not make citizenship law; Italy does that, and the comune is obliged to comply with the law of the nation. It is within the comune's (and the consulates')authority to issue passports, but it is required to do so within the framework of the law. A passport issued by the comune has no greater validity than one issued by the consulate; nor does it confer additional privileges.
Often, however, comune officials are not as familiar with the details of citizenship law as are the consulates. If the comune is making rules that conflict with national law, a good lawyer can take care of the problem, and perhaps they will be better informed the next time they deal with a similar situation.
I'm pleased that your residence in the comune will smooth the path for your husband. But surely you don't mean to suggest that your comune will determine when he is eligible to apply. This is determined by Italian citizenship law as it is for all spouses of Italian citizens.
. . .because every country determines it's own laws, and those laws are not necessarily similar to those in the US. It's not productive to try to compare Italian citizenship laws to those in the US. They are considerably different, and it is Italian law that applies. Remember that Italy is a jure sanguinis country, and all its citizens have equal rights no matter where they reside. The US is a jus soli nation, and its citizenship laws for spouses and children reflect a jus soli philosophy.
The comune makes and enforces municipal law, which is why it can determine the land use within the municipality. The comune does not make citizenship law; Italy does that, and the comune is obliged to comply with the law of the nation. It is within the comune's (and the consulates')authority to issue passports, but it is required to do so within the framework of the law. A passport issued by the comune has no greater validity than one issued by the consulate; nor does it confer additional privileges.
Often, however, comune officials are not as familiar with the details of citizenship law as are the consulates. If the comune is making rules that conflict with national law, a good lawyer can take care of the problem, and perhaps they will be better informed the next time they deal with a similar situation.
I'm pleased that your residence in the comune will smooth the path for your husband. But surely you don't mean to suggest that your comune will determine when he is eligible to apply. This is determined by Italian citizenship law as it is for all spouses of Italian citizens.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
The non-Italian spouse of an Italian citizen is NOT a jus sanguinis candidate for citizenship. He/she is an immigrant desiring to become nauralized in Italy and is allowed to do so because he has received an immigration benefit through marriage. But all immigrants in USA, Italy or any other country in the European Union must meet the residency requirements before any type of petition for citizenship can be filed. The Comune does not make mistakes.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
........Often, however, comune officials are not as familiar with the details of citizenship law as are the consulates.........
I assure you, ALL Comunes in Italy have more citizenship cases than do Italian Consulates in the USA, Australia or anywhere else and are therefore more familiar. Obviously, you're not familiar with immigration in Italy and the European Union. Have you any idea how many Italians in Italy every year are marrying immigrants from Africa, Asia, South America and the Middle East?
I assure you, ALL Comunes in Italy have more citizenship cases than do Italian Consulates in the USA, Australia or anywhere else and are therefore more familiar. Obviously, you're not familiar with immigration in Italy and the European Union. Have you any idea how many Italians in Italy every year are marrying immigrants from Africa, Asia, South America and the Middle East?
Re: Divorce and citizenship
Carmine said...........Now, Italian law is quite clear in such matters: it says that before a jus matrimoni case can be presented, the couple must have been wed for two years if residing in Italy or for three years if outside Italy. This couple far exceeds the latter requirement. However, the stato civile officer in their Italian comune is insisting that no, they must now reside in Italy for two years before proceeding with his jus matrimoni application.............
What Italian law? The couple was married in Australia in accordance with Australian law. If within three years, the Italian citizen in Australia did not file a petition for citizenship for her non-Italian spouse, I doubt the Italian consulate even knew she had gotten married. By the way, the Italian consulate IS Italy. When you walk into any Italian consulate anywhere, you are IN Italy. Therefore, this couple did NOT meet Italy's three year requirement.
Now that they are living in Italy and Italy actually KNOWS the woman is married, they must meet the TWO year requirement. It's not enough to present your Australian marriage certificate when you get to Italy and say, "We've been married three years -- look at the date on our marriage certificate". If Italy didn't know about the marriage while they were in Australia, they didn't meet the requirement. It's up to the Italian citizen to record all changes in birth, marriage, death, relocation, etc.
What Italian law? The couple was married in Australia in accordance with Australian law. If within three years, the Italian citizen in Australia did not file a petition for citizenship for her non-Italian spouse, I doubt the Italian consulate even knew she had gotten married. By the way, the Italian consulate IS Italy. When you walk into any Italian consulate anywhere, you are IN Italy. Therefore, this couple did NOT meet Italy's three year requirement.
Now that they are living in Italy and Italy actually KNOWS the woman is married, they must meet the TWO year requirement. It's not enough to present your Australian marriage certificate when you get to Italy and say, "We've been married three years -- look at the date on our marriage certificate". If Italy didn't know about the marriage while they were in Australia, they didn't meet the requirement. It's up to the Italian citizen to record all changes in birth, marriage, death, relocation, etc.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
I'm very familiar with immigration to and emigration from Italy. My husband was born and raised in Italy, and his family is still in residence. Comuni may well have experience with immigration, but they have considerably less experience with jure sanguinis and with the subsequent applications of spouses. And, I'm sorry, I must disagree. Everyone makes mistakes, even comuni and consular officials as we have seen many times.
I don't know how it worked for you, but my marriage was registered at my comune at the same time my birth certificate was registered. My children's birth certificates were also registered. If the marriage takes place after jure sanguinis citizenship is obtained, it is the responsibility of the Italian citizen to register any subsequent marriages, divorces and births. Actually it is the law that he do so.
Italy does, of course, recognize marriages (and births) outside of Italy. In fact, in recognition of the fact that the law in other countries may not be consistent with the law in Italy, a recent circulare stated that birth certificates must be registered in the name as it appears on the foreign birth certificate even if that name does not adhere to Italian custom.
It seems only logical, since Italy does recognize foreign births and marriages, that it recognize them as effective on the date appearing on the document. My birth, for example, was registered in 2005, but my comune recognizes that I was born considerably (won't say how many years
) before that date. Many woman have obtained automatic Italian citizenship because their marriage took place before 1983, this despite the fact that their marriage document was presented to the comune after 1992.
The law is what it is. I'm sorry if you don't agree, and it seems futile to argue this point. Let us simply agree to disagree.
I don't know how it worked for you, but my marriage was registered at my comune at the same time my birth certificate was registered. My children's birth certificates were also registered. If the marriage takes place after jure sanguinis citizenship is obtained, it is the responsibility of the Italian citizen to register any subsequent marriages, divorces and births. Actually it is the law that he do so.
Italy does, of course, recognize marriages (and births) outside of Italy. In fact, in recognition of the fact that the law in other countries may not be consistent with the law in Italy, a recent circulare stated that birth certificates must be registered in the name as it appears on the foreign birth certificate even if that name does not adhere to Italian custom.
It seems only logical, since Italy does recognize foreign births and marriages, that it recognize them as effective on the date appearing on the document. My birth, for example, was registered in 2005, but my comune recognizes that I was born considerably (won't say how many years
) before that date. Many woman have obtained automatic Italian citizenship because their marriage took place before 1983, this despite the fact that their marriage document was presented to the comune after 1992.The law is what it is. I'm sorry if you don't agree, and it seems futile to argue this point. Let us simply agree to disagree.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
To answer a question raised earlier on this thread, a woman who married an Italian citizen on or before 27 April 1983 automatically gained citizenship at the moment of marriage. A woman who married on or after 28 April 1983 needs to apply and meet certain requirements (now including length of marriage, joint residency, and continuance of the marriage as of the time of application and approval). Those who married on or before 27 April 1983 do not need to meet these requirements, even if they are only now applying to have their citizenship recognized.
Conversely, those who gained citizenship by virtue of marriage, then got divorced on or before 27 April 1983, lost their Italian citizenship it they met certain conditions (including living abroad and resuming their foreign citizenship). Those who gained citizenship by virtue of marriage (either prior to or after April 1983), then got divorced on or after 28 April 1983, did not lose their Italian citizenship.
In short, it was easier to gain Italian citizenship prior to April 1983, but also easier to lose it. Those who are in the best situation are the ones who married prior to April 1983, then were divorced after April 1983, as they automatically gained Italian citizenship but didn't automatically lost it.
Note that those who lost their citizenship by divorcing prior to April 1983 may regain it rather simply if they are willing to move to Italy for a short period of time.
Also, going back to the original post (imagine that!), Italian law now requires that spouses declare when they apply for citizenship by marriage, and that they again declare when the petition is granted, that they are married and residing together. Thus, even once the two/three year waiting period is met, and the petition for citizenship by marriage is then filed (either in Italy or abroad), the couple will need to continue living together for a couple of years after the petition is filed if the spouse is to eventually be granted citizenship.
Conversely, those who gained citizenship by virtue of marriage, then got divorced on or before 27 April 1983, lost their Italian citizenship it they met certain conditions (including living abroad and resuming their foreign citizenship). Those who gained citizenship by virtue of marriage (either prior to or after April 1983), then got divorced on or after 28 April 1983, did not lose their Italian citizenship.
In short, it was easier to gain Italian citizenship prior to April 1983, but also easier to lose it. Those who are in the best situation are the ones who married prior to April 1983, then were divorced after April 1983, as they automatically gained Italian citizenship but didn't automatically lost it.
Note that those who lost their citizenship by divorcing prior to April 1983 may regain it rather simply if they are willing to move to Italy for a short period of time.
Also, going back to the original post (imagine that!), Italian law now requires that spouses declare when they apply for citizenship by marriage, and that they again declare when the petition is granted, that they are married and residing together. Thus, even once the two/three year waiting period is met, and the petition for citizenship by marriage is then filed (either in Italy or abroad), the couple will need to continue living together for a couple of years after the petition is filed if the spouse is to eventually be granted citizenship.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
I am replying to a post of several years ago, but can you explain the process for regaining citizenship for those that married and divorced prior to 1983?
Re: Divorce and citizenship
Unless the person who was married before 1983 and divorced prior to 1983 has a claim for jures sanguinis citizenship through an ancestor or could qualify for a shortened path because he has a second degree ancestor who was at one time an Italian citizen, there would be no shortened path to citizenship available for such a person. As with any foreigner seeking to naturalize in Italy, the person would have to be a legal, permanent resident residing in Italy for ten years before he could be considered eligible for naturalization.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
If you married an Italian before 1983 (and you are female) you automatically obtained Italian citizenship. If you divorced before 1983, you lost that citizenship. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a way to regain citizenship lost in this manner.
I don't think a shortened residency applies here. There is a reacquisition method, but it applies only to those who lost citizenship through naturalization.
I don't think a shortened residency applies here. There is a reacquisition method, but it applies only to those who lost citizenship through naturalization.
Re: Divorce and citizenship
In my case my parents naturalized prior to my birth, but then of course I have a first degree relative that was once an Italian citizen. Do you know what obtaining a residence status in Italy involves and does it need to be in the Italian relative's commune?
Re: Divorce and citizenship
It is my understanding that you would need to reside in Italy for three years before you can naturalize. Understand that this is not jure sanguinis, and your naturalization would only confer citizenship to you and your minor children. Adult children would have to naturalize on their own after three years of residence.
You can reside anywhere in Italy that you wish, but you must obtain a visa for an extended stay. There are several different types, so it may be a good idea to ask for consular guidance to determine the one best for your situation. Unfortunately, in most cases, the visa will not allow you to work in Italy.
You can reside anywhere in Italy that you wish, but you must obtain a visa for an extended stay. There are several different types, so it may be a good idea to ask for consular guidance to determine the one best for your situation. Unfortunately, in most cases, the visa will not allow you to work in Italy.
