questions about marriage act.

[dmt1955]

http://s28.postimg.org/9rrmfff3h/1838_V ... rriage.jpg

am i accurate in my understanding that the 'abbreviation' for the bride's surname is ignoti parenti ? the father's name has the same abbreviation. if this is the case, how can one be married without a last name? any thoughts about this practice of recording an event without the surname?

also, the mother is deceased. I am not sure what the name is - maybe Laora Feo? (Feo is a common name in Volturara)

thanks so much,
donna

[carubia]

I don't recall seeing that abbreviation before, but I don't think it could mean parenti ignoti because the mother was in fact known. It was not at all unusual for someone in the early 19th-c. to get married without a surname. If at the time of your birth you did not have a surname then when you got married, which involved submitting your birth cert, you could be recorded as having no surname then, too. Usually someone would lack a surname at birth only when both parents were unknown, but I've seen birth acts from the 1820s and 1830s where the child had no surname in the record even though the mother was known (because the father wasn't).

[dmt1955]

thanks so much for your ideas on this. my experience with records of children born out of wedlock is different than yours.

I have seen this abbreviation before when one or both parents were unnamed in a record. My experience has been that a child born to parents who are unnamed is given a name made up by the midwife / nuns / nurses, etc. or the surname Esposito.

I have seen records where the mother is named, father is not, and the child is given the mother's surname or the child is given a surname different than the mother's.

However, upon reviewing a century of records from 3 different locales, I have never seen a child not given a surname...hence my post.

thanks again for sharing your experiences with this.
donna

[Italysearcher]

Since so many of these abandoned children died many were not given surnames at birth, especially in the period before civil records.
If they survived, a male would be assigned a surname on marriage. They didn't usually bother to give women a surname at that time since any children would bear the father's surname and theirs would die with them.
I have seen many without surnames.

[carubia]

I've also seen a number of cases where a man had no surname at birth and not even on his marriage record, but starting from his first child he had a surname.

When a surname was made up for a foundling, in many birth acts it is stated that the civil records officer assigned it, as per law.

My earlier point about the abbreviation in this record is that it couldn't mean "parents unknown" since at least one parent was known in this case. That doesn't preclude it from being used to mean, for example, "father unknown" or "no surname" or even "N/A," or perhaps it had different meanings depending on the context.

[liviomoreno]

N.N. stands for "Nomen Nescio", literally "I don't know the name", name unknown.

[AngelaGrace56]

http://s28.postimg.org/9rrmfff3h/1838_V ... rriage.jpg

also, the mother is deceased. I am not sure what the name is - maybe Laora Feo? (Feo is a common name in Volturara)

thanks so much,
donna

I am also reading the late Laora Feo. I haven't been able to locate the name Laora on any of the lists I have with Italian girls names but I have found the following listing for Laora Marchese.

Laora Marchese
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... 34-1093-62

This is a very interesting topic Donna.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Livio wrote: "N.N. stands for "Nomen Nescio", literally "I don't know the name", name unknown."

Thank you for explaining this Livio. I spent a little yesterday trying to work out what the abbreviation meant. I should have realised it was Latin?
Angela

[dmt1955]

Ann, thanks for your thoughts on this. As I mentioned this is a new one for me.I am curious and eager to review the birth records to see if the surname is handled any differently.

Livio, I appreciate your explaining the abbreviation - very helpful.

Angela, thanks for confirming the mother's name. Laora is not a name I have seen before, but then again, that is happening a lot with thee records.

Carubia, thanks for restating your idea. I have a clearer understanding.

i appreciate all the efforts
donna

[AngelaGrace56]

Happy to help Donna. It would be great if there was Allegati on this film - the bride's birth extract should be included there and there may be other relevant info there as well pertaining to this.
Angela

[dmt1955]

angela,
i wish there was allegati, too, but none in the microfilms for rent thru family search.

i should have been clearer in my response.... i meant the birth records of their children....what is done with the mother's surname.

thanks again
donna

[AngelaGrace56]

That's a pity that there is no allegati on your films. It will be interesting to see whether the mother's surname is recorded differently in their children's birth records. All the best with that.
Angela