double birth certificates (?)‏

[Italysearcher]

His passport was issued by the Italian Consulate in Tolosa, France. Maybe they can help you.

[or100cohen]

I have got a call from the embassy of tunisia in my country , they told me they:

Hi
I just reviewed in our archives and I found the folder of your brother, n.2846. unfortunately is really empty and the only information can help you is that the city hall of origin of your family was Livorno. So as previously explained you need to get from the city hall the 'estratto per riassunto dell'atto di nascita' of your or the one of your father.
Without this document we cannot even start to analyse your case..

So when i have tried to contact livorno they did not replay . anybody have any advice for me ?

asli@archivi.beniculturali.it‬‏,
‫comune.livorno@postacert.toscana.it‬‏,
urp@comune.livorno.it

all of those emails did not replay.

[PippoM]

Hello,
did you read what I wrote in your other thread?

According to this book (page 37):

https://books.google.it/books?id=oDzDtB ... on&f=false

the Scetbon's have been living in Tunisia since the XVIII century, so I doubt that they kept their Italian citizenship (they were from Livorno). If your brother's wife was Italian, than maybe he took on his Italian citizenship from her.
However, if Guido was born in Tunisia, I don't think his birth certificate will help you. It could only be of help if it was recorded in his town of origin. But, as I said above, I'm very doubtful about it.

There are records online for Livorno here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... i+Livorno/ (about 1808-1814)

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ento/1841/

(you might find this interesting; this is a census of the Jewish area of Livorno in 1841; you might want to check if there were Scetbon's still living there. However, there are also censuses of other parishes of town under "Archivio di Stato di Firenze"/"Stato civile della restaurazione 1816-1860")

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... i+Livorno/

Unfortunately, there are no records online after 1865

[Italysearcher]

You need to send a letter to Livorno and include your photo ID and an addressed envelop and tell them you need this for citizenship purposes. If you need help with this message me privately.

[or100cohen]

Hello,
did you read what I wrote in your other thread?

According to this book (page 37):

https://books.google.it/books?id=oDzDtB ... on&f=false

the Scetbon's have been living in Tunisia since the XVIII century, so I doubt that they kept their Italian citizenship (they were from Livorno). If your brother's wife was Italian, than maybe he took on his Italian citizenship from her.
However, if Guido was born in Tunisia, I don't think his birth certificate will help you. It could only be of help if it was recorded in his town of origin. But, as I said above, I'm very doubtful about it.

There are records online for Livorno here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... i+Livorno/ (about 1808-1814)

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ento/1841/

(you might find this interesting; this is a census of the Jewish area of Livorno in 1841; you might want to check if there were Scetbon's still living there. However, there are also censuses of other parishes of town under "Archivio di Stato di Firenze"/"Stato civile della restaurazione 1816-1860")

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... i+Livorno/

Unfortunately, there are no records online after 1865

Thank you for your answer , but i need records after 1900

You need to send a letter to Livorno and include your photo ID and an addressed envelop and tell them you need this for citizenship purposes. If you need help with this message me privately.

Just got this email from Livorno :

Gentile Sig.ra Scetbon,
abbiamo effettuato delle ricerche sui nostri registri a partire dal 1866 ma non abbiamo trovato gli atti di nascita da lei richiesti. Per poter effettuare invece la ricerca degli atti di matrimonio di Victor, Marie,Elia e Simcha avremmo bisogno dei rispettivi cognomi e dell'anno di matrimonio o comunque di indicazioni piu' precise.
Cordialmente



--
Ufficio stato civile
Comune di Livorno

They didnt find them maby because they looked for Victor Insted of abramo or haim ? (he have 3 names - Abramo Victor Haim Scetbon.)

Do i need to hire researcher to find ther certificates ?

[PippoM]

They say they couldn't find the birth records you requested.
As to the marriage records, they say they need all surnames, and (approximate) year of marriage.

Even if you hired a researcher, he could not look in the town records by himself.
The one chance is if they are also kept at National Archives.
I looked at their Inventory, but I couldn't see them:

http://www.archiviodistatolivorno.benic ... cumentario

If you want, I can write an email to ask.

[or100cohen]

They say they couldn't find the birth records you requested.
As to the marriage records, they say they need all surnames, and (approximate) year of marriage.

Even if you hired a researcher, he could not look in the town records by himself.
The one chance is if they are also kept at National Archives.
I looked at their Inventory, but I couldn't see them:

http://www.archiviodistatolivorno.benic ... cumentario

If you want, I can write an email to ask.

Thank you very much my friend , it will be very helpful
here is the accurate birth information:

Abramo Haim Victor Scetbon (Abramo Scetbon) was born in Monastir , Tunisia in 21/05/1902.
Marie Jeanne Salfati was born in Beja , Tunisia in 1902
Allegra Mafalda Scetbon was born in Tunis , Tunisia in 25/11/1929
Guido Sectbon was born in Beja , Tunisia in 02/12/1925

[or100cohen]

Just got a mail from livorno.
http://imgur.com/meaSeGh
Is it the birth certificate ??
Thank you

[PippoM]

Yes, it is!
I can't read it well, as it is rather blurred, but I understand birth was recorded in Livorno 14 years later, in 1916
Abramo was the son of Elia, and ? Allegri.
Remember that, if you need it for your citizenship, you have to get a certified copy (a certificate obtained from this record)

[or100cohen]

Yes, it is!
I can't read it well, as it is rather blurred, but I understand brith was recorde in Livorno 14 years later, in 1916

Wow that's awesome !
Can i get my birth certificate from using this document ? (Beacuse he is my father )

Thank you all you guys

[PippoM]

What you know now is that your father's family was originally from Livorno.
So, if he always lived in Tunisia, and never went back to Italy, it is likely that YOUR birth was recorded in Livorno (if it was at all) too. So you'll have them to look for your birth record. However, what seems weird to me, is that you were born in Tunisia, but your birth was recorded in France, also; so, I wonder, will it have been recorded in Italy, too.
However, I'm getting lost! What do you need your birth certificate for?

[or100cohen]

Hey thank you for replaying .

LOL i got lost in this rollercoaster too .
But from what i understand here is it how i goes:

The Jewish people from livorno, Italy. Where sent to live and work in Tunisia in 18' 19' century.
They were still Italin citizen of Italy buy lived in Tunisia .
Tunisia was a colony of French in that time.
They kept records of birth,marriages and death in the Italian console in Tunisia ,
and in the country of Tunisia birth,marriages and death records. (Because France ruled in Tunisia in that time thay kept the records)
Just my grandfather or my ggf was born in livorno

That why they shold have 2 records of everything
Italian records, and french records

[mmogno]

Yes, it is!
I can't read it well, as it is rather blurred...

Atto di nascita. Io sottoscritto Giacobbe H??? Rabbino a Monastir (Tunisia) certifico che Abramo Haim Vittorio Scelton figlio di Elia Scelton e di Saraha Allegrina ???, sua moglie legittima, è nato a Monastir il Ventuno Maggio Millenovecentodue [21 May 1902] a ore nove e mezzo della sera (originari di Livorno). In fede si che sia redatto il presente certificato per ??? ??? ? ??? di scritto. Monastir lì 24 aprile 1907 firmato Jacob ????.
Seguono le legalizzazioni
--------------------------

[or100cohen]

Yes, it is!
I can't read it well, as it is rather blurred...

Atto di nascita. Io sottoscritto Giacobbe H??? Rabbino a Monastir (Tunisia) certifico che Abramo Haim Vittorio Scelton figlio di Elia Scelton e di Saraha Allegrina ???, sua moglie legittima, è nato a Monastir il Ventuno Maggio Millenovecentodue [21 May 1902] a ore nove e mezzo della sera (originari di Livorno). In fede si che sia redatto il presente certificato per ??? ??? ? ??? di scritto. Monastir lì 24 aprile 1907 firmato Jacob ????.
Seguono le legalizzazioni
--------------------------

Hi thank you for replaying . but what does it mean ?

[or100cohen]

http://pho.to/AdWBS

Hey, I made the birth certificate more readable .

Can you tell me from this photo any information about his parents ? Elia and Sara(Or simcha) ?