Missing certs!

[matei]

Hi again - back with yet another query...

I've been in contact with the villages in which my great grandparents lived, and I'm seemingly unable to locate my GGM's birth certificate, or their marriage certificate. It is really puzzling.

My great grandmother was supposedly born in Montemiletto AV on 13 December 1889. All her existing immigration documentation lists Montemiletto AV as her place of birth and the date seems consistent. When I previously tried searching for a birth cert there the response was "sorry, no such person on this date". Likewise, I tried looking for a marriage cert there – and was unsuccessful.

I also tried in my GGF's comune, and I was able to uncover his birth cert as well as the marriage cert for his first wife - but not for his second.

Recenlty I tried again with Montemiletto, and to my surprise they came back within a few days. There is a person born there with roughly the same names are my GGM's parents, but the middle name of the person in question is entirely different (Amorosa instead of Domenica) and the DoB is way off - 14 April 1891 instead of 13 Dec 1889. Anything is possible though, there is a chance that it is the same person.

No mention though of any marriage cert. I know my GGF remarried, as his first wife died in 1911 of the flu. My GGM emigrated in 1913, so there was a 3 year window. Her manifest listing shows her travelling to the US in 1913 under her maiden name (assume that Italian women still travelled under their maiden names), together with the daughter from my GGF's first marriage. SHe states that she'll be meeting up with her husband - my GGF - who had previously travelled to the US.

I read somewhere that children out of wedlock isn't a barrier to Jure Sanguinis, and I'm pretty sure they married... but has anyone heard of a case where JS was granted in spite of a missing marriage cert or birth cert of someone not in the direct line?

[mler]

Is it at all possible that your great grandparents actually married in the US? It may be worth checking despite the fact that she claimed to be meeting her husband. Accuracy on ship manifests cannot be assumed. If you can locate the marriage documents, you may find more specific information about her birth.

You might also try giving Montemiletto a date range. Often, in the early part of the 20th century, the birth was not registered until the midwife found the time to do the paperwork. If your ggm used her actual birth date and not the registration date, the dates may not coincide.

[matei]

Thanks... good suggestion. I had been looking on Ancestry.com and familysearch.org, in PA - but I've not come across anything so far.

That being said, there is a slight knack I feel to searching with those sites (and others) which I don't seem to have. I've often put in info and stumbled across something later.

[mler]

That happened to me as well. I stumbled upon my gf's naturalization information, but later, I could not retrieve it. It seemed a bit haphazard.

[mler]

If you feel comfortable with it, you may want to post specific names and possible dates here. There are quite a few people on this site who are able to find what seems unfindable.

[mler]

Also, if your ggf's marriage to your ggm resulted in the line you are using, you will need information on his first wife (birth, marriage, death, with death being critical to making his subsequent marriage legitimate). That his first wife died in 1911 and his second wife travelled to the US in 1913 makes it more likely they married in the US. I don't know how much time was considered reasonable to wait before a second marriage during that period. When did your ggf arrive?

[matei]

Hi all - thanks again for the helpful suggestions. I really appreciate the time and the assistance.

Sadly nothing turned up in a search for a PA marriage record for my GGM/GGF.

Luckily I have his first wife's death certificate (oddly the comune sent that to me along with my GGF's birth certificate).

Re. names - I'm fine with that Hopefully someone more skilled in the dark arts of genealogical earch engines can shed some light on the mystery

So... my GGF's name is DI PALMA ERNESTO (or De Palma), b. 07 April 1878, in Pratola Serra.

My GGM's name is MARIA DOMENICA CENTRELLA (or Domenica Maria), supposedly born on 12 December 1889, in Montemiletto. I have some doubts now, as a new birth cert was unearthed for someone with almost the same name (middle being Amorosa instead of Domenica) but born in 1891, to parents with the same names as my GGF's :-s

My GGF's first wife, GUIDA GIUSEPPA, died in 1911. Actually the cert doesn't say why she died, just that she did.

My GGF states he emigrated to the the US in 1901 or 1905. My GGM emigrated in 1913. I've seen the manifests listing her name, and it states she is joining her husband in Pittsburgh. She is travelling under her maiden name and with my GGF's two daughters from his previous marriage.

[matei]

Aha - just located some info for the person with the similar name to my GGM, it is not her. What a coincidence, similar name, similar names to parents, same brother's name - and living in the same town in PA!!! However she arrived well after my GGM and married a different man, had kids etc.

Still no info pertaining to my GGM, but at least I eliminated something.

[matei]

Hi again... I used Ancestry.com and Familysearch to check for a marriage cert for my GGF/GGM in Pennsylvania, but there was none. It did turn up marriage licenses for their children though, but not for them.

Would anyone know what kind of documentation people had in the early 1900's? Did they have passports?

Also - is there a listing of passengers leaving the US?

I am trying to narrow down the time when they could've been married. My GGF went back to Italy in 1908, returned in 1909. I believe his wife went over at that time as well, and she passed away there in 1911. Not sure if he went back for a funeral, coudldn't find any passenger lists from that period with his name - but his second wife, my GGM, came to the US in 1913. Supposedly for the first time.

[mler]

You’re continuing the discussion in a thread that may not be seen by the people you need to see it. Why not try posting the details in the genealogy section where some of the genealogy experts here are more likely to notice it.

Best of luck.

[matei]

Thanks