Marriage Banns translation help needed

[scraig32]

Thank you!!!!

[scraig32]

Would you be able to take a look at the attached image from Ippolita's marriage banns. Right side of the page, near the very top it mentions a Francesco Napolitano. Can you tell who this is in relation to Ippolita.?


http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

Also, on the very next image, it lists under #4 a Giuseppe Napolitano and #5 Nicolo Napolitano. Can you tell who they are in relation to Ippolita? Thank you very much.

Since her mother Marianna Napolitano is the supposed illegitimate daughter of Prince of Castleforte, Salvatore Massa I was wondering if perhaps one of these Napolitano men might be Marianna's adoptive father, or brother.

Thank you so much!!

[PippoM]

They are members of the Family Council. As it is explained in next image, Giuseppe is an uncle of Ippolita on maternal side, and Nicolò and Francesco are her cousins. So, I guess Giuseppe was Marianna's brother, and Nicolò and Francesco his sons, or some other brother's sons.

[scraig32]

Thank you so much!

[scraig32]

Pippo- I have recently started corresponding with some cousins in Palermo, Italy. I have shared all of your help in the marriage bann translation of Ippolita Perez and Mariano DiStefano. Your help has led to MANY more wonderful discoveries for the family. We can not thank you enough. My Palermo family is wondering would you be able to tell by looking at the marriage banns document- linked in the original post, which archive office these recent documents are to be found in? They said they may be able to go and look at them in person when the offices open up again. Thank you so much! Suzanne

[PippoM]

They are at the Archivio di Stato di Palermo:

https://www.beniculturali.it/mibac/open ... ame=204258

As the Archive has more than one location, they better contact them to know where the "Stato Civile" registers are kept. If your cousins want, and have time, they can also look for the Prince's will, that was probably issued in 1819, as he died on the same year when Ippolita was born. Wills are part of Notarial records, and are kept at Archivio di Stato, too.

[scraig32]

Oh thank you so much!! This is very helpful. I will pass this info on to them. How very exciting!!

Susanne

[scraig32]

I am in need of translation help for marriage banns for Don Mariano Di Stefano & Ippolita Perez. Images 1156-1169. I know the following:

Wife: Ippolita Perez
Father: Deceased, Antonino Perez
Mother: Deceased, Marianna Napolitano

Husband: Don Mariano DiStefano, lawyer
Father: Knight Giuseppe DiStefano
Mother: Giovanna Falco

Marriage Date: April 27, 1839 Santa Ninfa

I am seeking help with the following:
1. Are death dates listed for Antonino Perez or Marianna Napolitano, parents of the bride.
2. Image 1167, right page, near the top. I see mention of a Principe Castelforte. Can anyone tell me what this section says about him. Does it list his wife the Principessa Massa? I saw somewhere else in the document the mention of Salvator Massa- can't figure who he is.
3. Is there anything else noteworthy that you see?

Thank you so much for your help!!!! Suzanne



http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

I am looking back at this post about the marriage of Mariano and Ippolita and have a few questions I hope you can help answer. I believe the banns say that the groom was born in Santa Ninfa but at the time of marriage was living in Palermo. The bride was born in Palermo and at the time of marriage was living in Palermo. My question is- did the marriage take place in Palermo or in Santa Ninfa? When I look on the 10 year index of Palermo Marriages, the index says that it took place in Santa Ninfa on April 27, 1839. Where in the marriage banns does it say where the marriage took place? Thank you for taking a look at this for me.

[PippoM]

I think it's correct. If the processetti are in Santa Ninfa, then the marriage took place in Santa Ninfa, though I can't read the date anywhere. And it wouldn't be possible, as processetti are produced BEFORE the actual marriage promise.

And in fact, the marriage is here:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

[cedrone]

This marriage promise act was written in Palermo, and on the right site I read the marriage was celebrated in Sant'Ippolito (name of the church), that is in Palermo. Santa Ninfa was the place of birth of one of the spouses.

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_ ... _(Palermo)

[scraig32]

I think it's correct. If the processetti are in Santa Ninfa, then the marriage took place in Santa Ninfa, though I can't read the date anywhere. And it wouldn't be possible, as processetti are produced BEFORE the actual marriage promise.

And in fact, the marriage is here:

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

Thank you Pippo! Is the processetti all of the documents needed to marry? Can you tell me what a marriage promise is- I know this one took place on April 25, 1925. Just to be sure I have things correct in my mind- the following things are needed for a marriage?

1. Marriage banns- posted in the town of the groom and the town of the bride to let the town know that they intend to marry and make sure no one has any objections to the marriage?
2. Processetti- all of the documents needed to prove that couple can marry- birth certificates, death of parents or previous spouses, baptism documents, family council meeting, etc
3.Marriage Promise- I'm not sure what this is- but I do see that my couple had one on April 25th (in Palermo)

I also know that during this time, 1839- there was a civil wedding and a church wedding. Would info about when and where these two took place be included in the marriage banns?

Thank you so much for helping me figure this out. I REALLY appreciate it so much! Suzanne

[scraig32]

This marriage promise act was written in Palermo, and on the right site I read the marriage was celebrated in Sant'Ippolito (name of the church), that is in Palermo. Santa Ninfa was the place of birth of one of the spouses.

https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiesa_ ... _(Palermo)

Oh this is wonderful information! Thank you. I don't know why or how I did not see it there on the right. I can clearly see it now. I was always wondering if the couple got married in Santa Ninfa in the groom's family chapel. The bride's parents were both deceased at the time of marriage so I did not know where the couple would get married. The groom's family had a large property in Santa Ninfa. He was born there but resided also in Palermo. The bride was born in Palermo and did not move to Santa Ninfa until after marriage. I was confused about where the marriage took place because on the Palermo 10 year indexes on Antenati it says it took place on April 29 1839 in Santa Ninfa.

I appreciate your help and insight on this!

[cedrone]

If you put a link to this index I'll give a look (or I'll try to find it), probably there was a mistake and it was written Santa Ninfa, because the marriage act was written in the office of the Comune of Palermo.
I can try to give my reply to your questions in your preceding message to Pippo.
First of all, you must remember that in 1861 Italy was unified in the Kingdom of Italy and after some years to make the new laws, in 1866 the new Stato Civile came into effect with new rules and registers.
Before 1861 there were different rules in the various States existing in Italy.
In the Southern part of Italy there was the Regno delle Due Sicilie and the register you saw was that in use there and in that time:
The act (promessa di matrimonio) was written in the office of the Comune by the Stato Civile official (in the left side of the act) ; than a copy was sent to the parish where the marriage should be celebrated and then the priest sent back to the Comune a certificate of the religious marriage and this was written on the right side of the marriage promise act.
So the (religious) marriage was celebrated in the church and then it was valid also for civil effects.
____

After 1866 there was a separation of the two celebrations, the registers you can see in Family Search concern civil marriages; religious marriages were of course celebrated in a church and registered in registers of the parish.

[cedrone]

Your other questions:
1. (Pubblicazioni di matrimonio): Yes
2. Yes, in Northern Italy (and after 1866 in Italy) you find these documents indicated as 'Allegati'

[scraig32]

If you put a link to this index I'll give a look (or I'll try to find it), probably there was a mistake and it was written Santa Ninfa, because the marriage act was written in the office of the Comune of Palermo.
I can try to give my reply to your questions in your preceding message to Pippo.
First of all, you must remember that in 1861 Italy was unified in the Kingdom of Italy and after some years to make the new laws, in 1866 the new Stato Civile came into effect with new rules and registers.
Before 1861 there were different rules in the various States existing in Italy.
In the Southern part of Italy there was the Regno delle Due Sicilie and the register you saw was that in use there and in that time:
The act (promessa di matrimonio) was written in the office of the Comune by the Stato Civile official (in the left side of the act) ; than a copy was sent to the parish where the marriage should be celebrated and then the priest sent back to the Comune a certificate of the religious marriage and this was written on the right side of the marriage promise act.
So the (religious) marriage was celebrated in the church and then it was valid also for civil effects.
____

After 1866 there was a separation of the two celebrations, the registers you can see in Family Search concern civil marriages; religious marriages were of course celebrated in a church and registered in registers of the parish.

This is great information!!! Thank you so much for the writing it out so clearly. Just what I was looking for. I really appreciate it.

Here is the link to the marriage of Mariano DiStefano on the Palermo 10 year index- the reason I thought they were married in Santa Ninfa and not Palermo.

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0