Marianna Fiorini death 1888 in Zocca

[deigo1]

Hello,

Need help translating the below death certificate for Mairanna Fiorini in 1888 from Zocca.

https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... 54&lang=en
Page 9 Entry #22

Thank you,
D.

[AngelaGrace56]

Death No 22: Marianna Fiorini

Registered on 22 February 1888, Zocca

Appearing were Pietro Masotti, 62 yo, Colano (tenant farmer), and Giuseppe Ropa, 56 yo, operaio (worker), both living in Rosola. They reported that at 6 pm on 20 February, in the house in Rosola, Marianna Fiorini, 63 yo, massaia (domestic), residing in Rosola, but born in Mantese, died. She was the daughter of the deceased Amadio and of the deceased Maria Zanardi, the wife of Pietro Masotti.


Angela

[deigo1]

Thank you Angela, this helps so much! I could not find Pietro's death certificate preceding here, as I was assuming that said she was already a widow. I need to see if I can find it in the years past 1888. Also any chance that Mantese, could be Montese? Their daughter (my great-grandma x2) was married and lived there the rest of her life.

Thanks as always for your quick help!
D.

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you Angela, this helps so much! I could not find Pietro's death certificate preceding here, as I was assuming that said she was already a widow. I need to see if I can find it in the years past 1888. Also any chance that Mantese, could be Montese? Their daughter (my great-grandma x2) was married and lived there the rest of her life.

Thanks as always for your quick help!
D.

Yes, it is definitely Montese. Good catch. I don't think there is any such place as Mantese.

Angela

[deigo1]

Hi Angela,

Question I've went through about every Zocca death index for Marianna's husband, and found one Pietro Masotti after her death.

https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... 65&lang=en
Page 22 #74.

I though I was successful, but if I read the spouse line right it doesn't line up. Was curious does it say anything about a second marriage? I see the name Bonetti in there, which is the married name of the daughter from Montese I mentioned earlier.

Thanks!
D.

[AngelaGrace56]

Hi Angela,

Question I've went through about every Zocca death index for Marianna's husband, and found one Pietro Masotti after her death.

https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... 65&lang=en
Page 22 #74.

I though I was successful, but if I read the spouse line right it doesn't line up. Was curious does it say anything about a second marriage? I see the name Bonetti in there, which is the married name of the daughter from Montese I mentioned earlier.

Thanks!
D.

Hi

There is no mention of current wife Gioconda Diamanti being his second wife. One of the declarants of the death is Isidoro Bonetti, 38 yo, farmer. Might he be a son-in-law?

This death record gives Pietro Masotti's parents as the deceased Luigi Masotti, and the deceased Domenica Corneti. Death occurred yesterday at 3 pm so died on 18 July 1898 in Rosola. Also born in Rosola.

You could look for Pietro’s marriage to Maria Zanardi to see whether the names of his parents match, or look from February 1888 to see whether there is a marriage between Pietro Masotti and Gioconda Diamanti to see what that says.


Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I've located a July 1888 marriage between Pietro Masotti, vedovo, and Gioconda Diamanti, vedova, so they were both widowed.

Marriage Act No 21, page 14:
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... id=3642912

I'll come back later and translate it for you. (I have all this hyperactivity happening outside at the moment with noisy machinery so it's a little hard to concentrate.)

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

The noise has stopped (thanks be) so I decided to look for Pietro and Gioconda’s marriage pubblication, which confirms that the same Pietro Masotti was married to Marianna Fiorini. (Her death record was one of the documents (allegati) presented in order for the marriage to take place.)


You can find a copy of the Pubblication (No 24) on page 14,
https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... id=3642978

This is all I can do for the moment.

Angela

[deigo1]

Wow! that's incredible way to solve the mystery. He didn't waste any time getting re-married did he at 62 no less I checked every marriage index from 1889 to 1898, and like 30 years of death indexes ( I hate it when there is no ten year indexes) not even thinking he would be remarried the same year, let alone within 5 months! I was able to decipher Marianna's name at the very bottom of publication you found...that is great history thank you so much

On Pietro's death cert now that we know its him, curious what did it list his age at death? He was ~62 in 1888 on Marianna's so thinking it should be around 73 ish.

Thanks!
D.

[Tessa78]

Wow! that's incredible way to solve the mystery. He didn't waste any time getting re-married did he at 62 no less I checked every marriage index from 1889 to 1898, and like 30 years of death indexes ( I hate it when there is no ten year indexes) not even thinking he would be remarried the same year, let alone within 5 months! I was able to decipher Marianna's name at the very bottom of publication you found...that is great history thank you so much

On Pietro's death cert now that we know its him, curious what did it list his age at death? He was ~62 in 1888 on Marianna's so thinking it should be around 73 ish.

Thanks!
D.

Correct! He was 73.

T.

[AngelaGrace56]

Wow! that's incredible way to solve the mystery. He didn't waste any time getting re-married did he at 62 no less I checked every marriage index from 1889 to 1898, and like 30 years of death indexes ( I hate it when there is no ten year indexes) not even thinking he would be remarried the same year, let alone within 5 months! I was able to decipher Marianna's name at the very bottom of publication you found...that is great history thank you so much

On Pietro's death cert now that we know its him, curious what did it list his age at death? He was ~62 in 1888 on Marianna's so thinking it should be around 73 ish.

Thanks!
D.

You are very welcome. Happy to help, as always!!! I’m sorry you had to look through so many indices. Did you not see my post here where I suggested looking from February 1888, which was when Marianna Fiorini died? I know that it probably seems “odd” to begin looking for a remarriage straight after a spouse’s death, but I have seen it happen so many times now, where a deceased’s spouse remarries very soon after the event.

I’m so pleased that the publication included Marianna’s name on it - so now there is no doubt that the death record you have located is for the correct Pietro Masotti. (In my own research I’ve always checked the Pubblications as they often have added information on them, especially pertaining to the parents, of the bride and groom, which may not be included in the actual Marriage Record.)

And yes, Pietro was 73 when he died, as Tessa confirmed. I’d actually noted this in the translation but when I copied and pasted what I had typed, missed his age. (Computer issues!!!)

Are you needing the marriage record translated?

Angela

[deigo1]

I did not see your note before I started my searching (I wish I would have) I was thinking who would get married the same year their wife dies, I guess the folks from the 1800's lol. I am ok on that translation thank you.

D.

[AngelaGrace56]

I did not see your note before I started my searching (I wish I would have) I was thinking who would get married the same year their wife dies, I guess the folks from the 1800's lol. I am ok on that translation thank you.

D.

I understand what you are saying because I grew up understanding that it was an absolute "no no" amongst Italians for widows, especially, to remarry. It just didn't happen in the community I grew up in. (There was just one man that I can think of that, after his wife died, returned to Italy to basically "fetch a wife" to help look after his children and work extremely hard in his business. She was years young than him, they had several children, and then sadly he died leaving her with a young family and business to run.) Anyways, once I started searching and reading Italian civil records I discovered that it was very common for widows/widowers to remarry, and sometimes within a very short time of their spouse's passing.

Angela