Help finding death record of Maria Carolina Sammarco

[cgammaro]

Hi,

I'm trying to find the death record of Maria Carolina Sammarco between 1896-1902, born in San Lucido - Cosenza 25/Dez/1856, daughter of Francesco Maria Sammarco 5/jun/1819 - 11/mar/1899 and Maria Giuseppa Farinella Scorza 26/set/1822 - 27/mar/1890. She had siblings Concetta Rafaella Sammarco, Rosa Sammarco, Pasquale Sammarco, Maria Antonetta Sammarco, Antonio Maria Sammarco. She married to Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro in 1879 in San Lucido, and became a widow in 1895, went to comune to inform about her husband death in 1896. Her son Domenico got married in 1902 and civil records show that she was dead by then, so she died between 1896-1902, any help in finding her death certificate is appreciated.

Regards,
Cesar Gammaro

[mmogno]

Where Domenico got married in 1902?

[cgammaro]

Domenico got married in São Paulo - Brazil in 1902 but I couldn't find his mother death in Brazil either so assuming she never moved to Brazil. Domenico and his father immigrated to Brazil in 1888 and they lived here until 1895 when Domenico's father died. Then in 1896 Carolina went to the comune in San Lucido - CS to inform about her husband death but after that I couldn't find any other information than in Domenico's marriage documentation the information that both of his parents were dead already. So I'm assuming between 1896 and 1902 she died and never moved to Brazil.

[suanj]

On the Salvatore Gammaro death record in San Lucido, Maria Carolina was the informant. She in person given the brazilian death certificate abt the death occurred in Santa Ifigenia. So she was on 1896 in San Lucido. I no found her death records, but the info given by your ancestor on his own marriage is no affordable to 100%.

Maria Carolina was a young woman ( maybe with some children), and after the death of Salvatore, the life was strong for a widow without money.... maybe she remarried and moved in other town...

[cgammaro]

Hi suanj,

Thank you for your comments you always mention something important to be considered. Maybe that was the case so I will consider her death to be in a different city as well and different period.

So far I haven't found her death neither her son's birth certificate - my great grandfather birth record.

Regards,
Cesar

[suanj]

This is the wedding that took place in San Lucido on February 8, 1879.
Domenico in 1888 was 10 years old. He was born then in 1878, but I checked and the birth is not there. Salvatore's job is not on the marriage record. His father, on the other hand, was a sailor who in Italy, this word is also used to indicate fisherman on fishing boats
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043464
When a birth certificate is not found in a municipality, there are many explanations. Above all, birth registration, especially in the province of Cosenza, was linked to the place where the parent carried out his work. Because given the poverty, the farmer, the laborer with no land of his own, did not only go to work for the day in southern Italy, that was for when work was scarce for everyone, but and I know from experience they received the offer from the large landowners, of working the land, and taking the family with you, because it was not a job of a few days, such as sowing or harvesting, or harvesting fruit, it was a steady job, which lasted at least a year. And the farmer left with his family and made a contract with the landlord, for example two years or five years. During this period that the farmer together with his wife, because also the women and children worked, put the land of the owner in good health, it happened that a child was born and was registered in the municipality to which the land of the owner belonged. Sometimes they also asked for a transcription from the Municipality of residence, but they were poor illiterate people and they didn't even know it could be done. Domenico was certainly born somewhere, because he traveled with his father with his passport, so everything was in order, but where he was registered is not known. Another profession that involved this problem was the shepherd's profession. However, I can say that they moved slightly away from the Municipality of residence. I did not find Domenico Gammaro in the draft lists of the province of Cosenza, and you must know that the draft lists were compiled by the municipalities, by the registry officer, year by year, regarding the males born in a given municipality, and Domenico is not there. is. It may be that the database is incomplete. However there is not.
If I may express my opinion, based on my experience, the couple did not get along. Salvatore left his wife and took his son with him. It is not that she followed him after a few months, no she remained in Calabria for another 8 years, certainly until 1896. Knowing the character of the women of southern Italy, she would never have allowed her husband to leave her alone. There must have been a problem with the marriage. As I see the story Salvatore did not emigrate to emigrate, but he emigrated to get away.
Sorry for some error but really no much free time to read again and to correct..
so please to search Domenico birth in some Commune near San lucido, maybe you will have good luck.. Best regards,
suanj

[Rick Berni]

Hello there,
I hope you don't mind me joining this conversation. I was reading suanj's response about communities close by to San Lucido. I am related to Sammarcos that come from San Fili and Bucita Cosenza. These towns are very close to San Lucido. Maybe that is where your Sammarcos may be from. A good blogspot to check out is San Vincenzo la costa genealogy records blogspot. I don't have the link as I write this but if you google it, you will see it. There are many Sammarcos listed here. Good Luck.

[cgammaro]

This is the wedding that took place in San Lucido on February 8, 1879.
Domenico in 1888 was 10 years old. He was born then in 1878, but I checked and the birth is not there. Salvatore's job is not on the marriage record. His father, on the other hand, was a sailor who in Italy, this word is also used to indicate fisherman on fishing boats
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043464
When a birth certificate is not found in a municipality, there are many explanations. Above all, birth registration, especially in the province of Cosenza, was linked to the place where the parent carried out his work. Because given the poverty, the farmer, the laborer with no land of his own, did not only go to work for the day in southern Italy, that was for when work was scarce for everyone, but and I know from experience they received the offer from the large landowners, of working the land, and taking the family with you, because it was not a job of a few days, such as sowing or harvesting, or harvesting fruit, it was a steady job, which lasted at least a year. And the farmer left with his family and made a contract with the landlord, for example two years or five years. During this period that the farmer together with his wife, because also the women and children worked, put the land of the owner in good health, it happened that a child was born and was registered in the municipality to which the land of the owner belonged. Sometimes they also asked for a transcription from the Municipality of residence, but they were poor illiterate people and they didn't even know it could be done. Domenico was certainly born somewhere, because he traveled with his father with his passport, so everything was in order, but where he was registered is not known. Another profession that involved this problem was the shepherd's profession. However, I can say that they moved slightly away from the Municipality of residence. I did not find Domenico Gammaro in the draft lists of the province of Cosenza, and you must know that the draft lists were compiled by the municipalities, by the registry officer, year by year, regarding the males born in a given municipality, and Domenico is not there. is. It may be that the database is incomplete. However there is not.
If I may express my opinion, based on my experience, the couple did not get along. Salvatore left his wife and took his son with him. It is not that she followed him after a few months, no she remained in Calabria for another 8 years, certainly until 1896. Knowing the character of the women of southern Italy, she would never have allowed her husband to leave her alone. There must have been a problem with the marriage. As I see the story Salvatore did not emigrate to emigrate, but he emigrated to get away.
Sorry for some error but really no much free time to read again and to correct..
so please to search Domenico birth in some Commune near San lucido, maybe you will have good luck.. Best regards,
suanj

Thank you suanj for your super complete answer, I will search in the surroundings trying to find the birth record, going to the familysearch history center to look at some records which are not available online as well. I will keep you informed. I have also requested to unarchive Domenico marriage record trying to find any documentation they presented on the civil marriage. I never thought about that perspective that couple didn't get along etc, that would explain he left Carolina in Calabria.

[cgammaro]

Hello there,
I hope you don't mind me joining this conversation. I was reading suanj's response about communities close by to San Lucido. I am related to Sammarcos that come from San Fili and Bucita Cosenza. These towns are very close to San Lucido. Maybe that is where your Sammarcos may be from. A good blogspot to check out is San Vincenzo la costa genealogy records blogspot. I don't have the link as I write this but if you google it, you will see it. There are many Sammarcos listed here. Good Luck.

Thank you Rick, I did find Gammaro's born in San Fili in some online website back in the day, will definitely try searching Sammarcos in there too and in Bucita. Rende is also close and may be a possibility.

[Rick Berni]

Glad that my suggestion helped. I have relatives in all those locations as well. Speaking of Sammarcos, I knew Peter Sammarco when I went to grade school in Toronto. Good luck tracking down your relatives.

[suanj]

Hi by the marriage record, we know that Maria Carolina Sammarco and her parents, and Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro and his parents, all were born in San Lucido https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043464
Best regards,
suanj