fidelis stabile

[lindamauer]

Hello,
this death notice shows parents of vincentii and rose lojacona but i do not have fidelis birth.
I am needing this translated as i do not understand the words after the parents names.
as i have a conflict of a possible parent name rose marie zito
i am thinking vincentii may have gotten married 2 times but i do not have records to determine the actual parent as it seems there are different siblings one barbara and one vita
Thanks for considering to translate this record so i can unravel this to be certain

Linda

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... g=en&i=144

[darkerhorse]

The words after his parents' names seem to be repeated in most of the other records, seems like a formality stating that he received all of the sacraments (last rites?) and was buried in a grave at that church. Nothing to do with his (deceased) parents or other marriages from what I can tell.

[darkerhorse]

The words after his parents' names seem to be repeated in most of the other records, seems like a formality stating that he received all of the sacraments (last rites?) and was buried in a grave at that church. Nothing to do with his (deceased) parents or other marriages from what I can tell.

[darkerhorse]

It appears that his wife Antonia Mistretta was also deceased.

[erudita74]

He was age 84 at the time of his death.

[lindamauer]

thank you both much
now i can guesstimate the birth year as 1779
rose zito died 1775
So i need to find birth of Fidelis and
marriage vincenti and rose Lojacona to confirm fidelis parents.
Linda

[lindamauer]

Can this possibly be fidelis- i need a translation either way
it is the correct area of time
can pasqualy equal fidelis?


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... ng=en&i=59

[erudita74]

Linda

Pasquale Stabile was born today Sept 13, 1780 in Campofiorito to spouses Vincenzo Stabile and Rosa Iacono. Vincenzo was from the family of deceased Ignazio and Vita Stabile, who had been a married couple in Bisacquino. Rosa Iacono was from the family of Gaspare and Anna Maria Iacono, also of Bisacquino.

As far as I know, the Latin names Paschalis and Fidelis are totally unrelated. The former is derived from the Latin word for Easter. The latter means faithful or loyal.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Linda
The Gaspare born on Sept 10, 1783 in Campofiorito had the middle name Fidelis. folio 68. Very washed out which is why I hadn't previously seen it. Next to last record on the left.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... ng=en&i=70

Erudita

[lindamauer]

I am not sure as at the time of death it says Fidelis is 84 yrs old which would be 1779 birth
Is age correct on that record?

[erudita74]

Yes, both the church and civil death records for Fidelis give his age at death as 84.

https://antenati.cultura.gov.it/ark:/12 ... 93/5Klx8K7

Go to page 5 to view the civil death record.

I just know that death records are the least reliable of the records where ages at death are concerned. Also I’ve found church records in the past in which an infant was given multiple first names at baptism, and then in subsequent records, only one of those names was used, which may have even been the third of four names. I can’t currently prove that Gaspare Fidelis is the same person as just Fidelis, but I also don’t think the year of Fidelis’ birth is set in stone because of his age in the death records.

[lindamauer]

ok i understand. Either way it confirms in my head that Rosa Iacono is the mother NOT Rosa Zito as previously thought since zito died in 1775.
I am not sure if any other documents i should look for-- land ownership- will?, etc
any suggestions?
Should i write a letter to Campofiorito to ask for birth?
Thanks!

[erudita74]

Linda

Writing to Campofiorito for Fidele's birth record will not do you any good, as the town's civil records started in 1821. Also, since Fidele married in 1804, there would be no civil marriage record or marriage allegati records among the town's records. The latter would have included a copy of his baptism record. See if you can track down a marriage or death record for Gaspare Fidelis, at least to eliminate the possibility of him being the same person as Fidelis.

Fidele was a contadino/peasant, according to the civil 1829 marriage record posted for Rosa Stabile by Mary. So, he wouldn't have been a landowner. Plus, I don't know of any land ownership records which would be online, and there are no notarial/notary records for Campofiorito online which may or may not have included wills. Plus his age is given in her marriage record-as age 46 in 1829. So that gives us his birth year as 1773. I know mmogno posted some records on another thread of yours, which gave us his birth year as late as 1791, but that is too late, as he married in 1804.

It's too bad that there are no Stato delle Anime (state of the souls census records) among the church records for Campofiorito. There are ones for the parish in Bisacquino from 1705 to 1849. Those would have given you a list of everyone in a household, relationship to the head of household (wife, son, daughter, nephew, etc,) and ages at the time the census was done.

I also don't see any military records online (lista di leva in particular) which would help. I don't even see the year you would need if you search the family search website or the Palermo state archives,

Maybe someone else has other ideas. I have some other things to tend to now.

Erudita

[lindamauer]

Hello Erudita,
I just read your response while coming here to suggest finding Gaspare records
I will do that
Thanks so much for all your help
Best
Linda

[erudita74]

Linda,

You may already have this, but I started looking through baptism records in Bisacquino to try to determine which children were from Vincenzo Stabile’s marriage to Rosa Zito and which were children of his with Rosa Iacono since the baptism records in Campofiorito start in 1768 and his first marriage was in 1757 and ended with Rosa Zito’s death in 1775.

So far I found the baptism record for Ignazio Stabile dated Aug 25, 1758 in Bisacquino, folio 49. I’m just trying to be certain that Vincenzo didn’t have Fidelis with his first wife, Rosa Zito.

Also daughter Vita Stabile born in Bisacquino to Vincenzo Stabile and Rosa Zito Jan 16, 1763. Folio 35

Erudita