Is there an app that tells if records are destroyed/etc?

[lyn1982]

Is there any genealogy app that will tell you if records are destroyed, vs just not online yet?

[MarcuccioV]

None that I know of. On Antenati, there is a search page that will tell you whether a town/regions records are "complete" or "partial". If complete, expect no further revelations; if partial, more records SHOULD be forthcoming.

Example: The records for Rome are "partial"; I just noticed a few days ago that the parish records for our home commune (Valmontone) are listed under the communes heading on FamilySearch, but they are not yet available (I'm assuming in process of digitization). They were never listed bofore (only the Civil records were) so I'm hoping this will be new information that I can discover...

[lyn1982]

Thank you for that information.

However, it says Progress of the digitization activity
Complete for frosinone - I don't see how this can be considering Alatri only has these years:
1877 1878 1879 1883 1887 1888 1889 1891 1892 1893 1894 1897 1898

How can they consider that complete - surely there must be more records and they couldn't have had that many get destroyed!

[darkerhorse]

I agree with your DNA cousin.

Here's my two sense.

I think "completed" means they are finished copying records in that location. Their work is done for better or for worse. Not that they have necessarily copied all records in that location. They've copied all records which were made available (or at least handy). They could have missed some available records, or more likely, some records were missing or unavailable to begin with - damaged, lost, etc.

[darkerhorse]

*cents

[darkerhorse]

This is a real longshot...

My ancestral town has a sister city in the U.S. The public library in the U.S. sister city purchased all civil records from 1820 to 1929 on microfilm for the Italian sister city, and may them available to the public onsite for free, several years before digital records became available on Antenati, Ancestry, Family Search, etc. I spend many hours searching through the microfilm, and printing copies of records and/or making notes. I don't know if the library purchased the microfilm from their Italian sister city of from LDS.

Maybe there's an outside chance your ancestral towns have sister cities in the U.S. with public libraries or Italian clubs/societies with some records or information or contacts of interest to you. Probably not, but it's cheaper than a trip to the homeland. You never know...

Tampa, FL is the sister city of Agrigento
Washington, DC is the sister city of Rome

https://sistercities.org/membership/mem ... -countries

[darkerhorse]

Of course, it makes sense to contact the local government in the U.S. sister city to identify the person or office in charge of the sister city relationship.

[lyn1982]

That really sucks. I need alatri records to figure out if Pavia has ties to PE. Its either that or go through and make a tree for every single DNA match. From what little I've done AI claims I must decend from either Salvatore Marturana Birth 9 APR 1863 • Porto Empedocle, Agrigento, Sicilia, Italy Death 22 OCT 1896 or an unknown child of Cologero Martorana b1829 and Carmela Falzone b1841 but I don't know if I think thats right, some of these matches also have Fradella or Iacono on their other lines, but not in a way where I could decend from both (timing don't work ie the 2 lines meeting long after my ggf and in some cases even before my grandmas birth). So its impossible for me to pinpoint things and I haven't found why some of these matches that just have Martorana/Falzone still match like 20-30cm to the Fradella ones. I guess the other line of his must be from termini imerse cause I got no other unexplained paternal clusters.....but then how did he end up marrying someone from really close to there unless he knew? Best guess....father from Agrigento cluster, mother from TI cluster...

I'm waiting to hear back from the 2 places the state archives, who had nothing else on Giuseppe, referred me to as well.


Sister cities eh? Does every city/town have one? Thank you for that information....I'll google about this - I don't think I'll need it for Agrigento though as I now have access to the church records - but it might really help with Alatri if they have one - I do think there is some distant relation to Pavia and Mastracchio - I don't have Pavia matches but have 1 small 8cm Mastracchio match - which I gave up tracing the second I found an obituary where 4 brothers somehow all had different surnames. It might just be a coinsidence anyway - but hey I have 1 cluster of "rome/frosinone" dna matches where almost everyone is under 15cm. For all I know that could be his other parental line and the TI stuff could be something somehow on my ggm's line (tho its odd, they don't match any of my cerda matches). I don't know how common testing in Italy outside of sicily is to know if that would be possible, for the matches to all be that small.

[lyn1982]

Well talk about luck! Just as I was typing that an email was a comin in!

No info yet - but once I fill out some things and upload my id they will send me Giuseppe's record from the foundling home! I'll be filling that out later today!

[darkerhorse]

Well talk about luck! Just as I was typing that an email was a comin in!

No info yet - but once I fill out some things and upload my id they will send me Giuseppe's record from the foundling home! I'll be filling that out later today!

That's a game-changer. My guess is that he never lived with the M family. That he lived in a facility until he emigrated.

[lyn1982]

Well talk about luck! Just as I was typing that an email was a comin in!

No info yet - but once I fill out some things and upload my id they will send me Giuseppe's record from the foundling home! I'll be filling that out later today!

That's a game-changer. My guess is that he never lived with the M family. That he lived in a facility until he emigrated.

Why would he use all their names for his kids and mothers name on marriage then? Plus I think he lived in Alatri in his military record....tho I can't recall and can't access that again. But he def did not live in Rome in that record.

[darkerhorse]

Many times my guesses are wrong.

[lyn1982]

I'm hoping we're both wrong and that perhaps they are distant bio family.

[PippoM]

Registers on Antenati are the digitazions of those stored at the Archivio di Stato di Frosinone.
Here is the list of what is kept there:

https://archiviodistatofrosinone.cultur ... sinone.pdf

So, you can see that ALL the registers stored at the Archive have been digitized.
That doesn't mean that they are lost. The Comune must have another copy.
The problem is that the Comune doesn't search for you, and doesn't let you search there.

[darkerhorse]

In my ancestral town in Sicily, the clerk gladly showed me the old ledger books and found several family records of interest dating back to 1822, using what little information I had and her own detective work. The clerk then copied the basic information, printed certificates which she signed and gave to me gratis.