Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfather.

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 00:07

I don't quite get the importance of naturalisation records. Does this allow us to obtain citizenship? I heard that if you can prove that your grandfather was Italian then you could claim Italian citizenship. Is it true? Can it be my grandmother's father too?

I've been receiving quite a few certificates from councils in NY and I've just ordered my grandfather's birth certificate! Hopefully I'll be able to obtain my great grandfather's (my grandfather's father's) name and other details...

It's a lengthy process isn't it.....

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 04:29

There's a big mystery with Josephine Toia's husband - William Lise (B 1913), because despite her being pregnant with Louis Lise in 1921, William Lise doesn't appear on the 1920 Cencus... I've requested William Lise (B 1913) 's bith certificate...

I know I'm skipping steps but I was wondering if anybody have access to the US - Census Index (1870) because there's a William Lise in its records. Apparently 1850 too... Any help would be appreciated.

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 13 Sep 2006, 05:08

I can look it up for you...

Back soon...

Maria

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 13 Sep 2006, 05:16

Marcialise wrote:There's a big mystery with Josephine Toia's husband - William Lise (B 1913), because despite her being pregnant with Louis Lise in 1921, William Lise doesn't appear on the 1920 Cencus... I've requested William Lise (B 1913) 's bith certificate...

I know I'm skipping steps but I was wondering if anybody have access to the US - Census Index (1870) because there's a William Lise in its records. Apparently 1850 too... Any help would be appreciated.

Didn't see any listings for 1870 and 1850

How were they listed?? I would need this info in order to find them....

There are some records for Lise in 1880

1880 Cenus Listings
William Lise (Parents Christian, Emma) New York (Manhattan), New York City-Greater, NY abt 1879 New York Son
William H. Lise (Parents Pete, Mary) Jackson, Montgomery, OH abt 1863 Ohio Son
William A. Lise (Parents John W., Mary C.)Jackson, Montgomery, OH abt 1869 Ohio Son
William S. Lise (Parents Levi, Sarah) Hamilton, Decatur, IA abt 1865 Iowa Son

Maria

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 05:26

I cant remember which site I searched in but when I did a quick search it gave me several entries in the US Census 1870 and one in 1850... I was looking through my history (of websites I visited) but I can't find it...

It's possible that the William Lise mentioned above (Parents Christian & Emma) was my great great grandfather but that would mean that he married and had a child when he was very young (i.e. 16-18)... Oh but he's not of italian origin....

---

William Lise found in:
Census Microfilm Records: New Jersey, 1910
(http://www.genealogy.com)

Anybody have access to this??

----

William Lise (my grandfather) was born in New York, NY in 1913 (May) so I assume there is some sort of records of his father (my great grandfather, possibly another William Lise) around this time ... but cannot seem to locate him anywhere. He's not on the US Census 1920 and 1930 when his wife - Josephine Toia was living with her own father (Attilio Toia) and kids (i.e. Louis, Reta etc) without her husband (my great grandfather) ... How confusing...

I guess I just have to wait for the certificate to arrive?

vj · Post by vj » 13 Sep 2006, 06:59

Is William confirmed as Josephine's husband?
Have you looked at the Lise family living at
#3 St John's in New Rochelle in 1910?
(Toia family was at 32 Second Street, several blocks away)
May be some clues in manifests for this Lise family?

1910 lise census
(hard to read, 2nd family up from bottom of page)
Antonio Lise
Age in 1910: 44 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866 BirthPlace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouses's Name: Sannia
Home in 1910: New Rochelle Ward 4, Westchester, New York
Year of Immigration: 1895

Sannia Lise
Age in 1910: 42 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868 BirthPlace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Year of Immigration: 1902

Gingeppe (Giuseppe) Lise
Age in 1910: 11 (19) Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899 (1891)BirthPlace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Son
Year of Immigration: 1902

Alberto Lise
Age in 1910: 16 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894 BirthPlace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Son
Year of Immigration: 1902

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 15:08

I have a feeling this record would come useful later on! Thank you vj!

It's actually not confirmed that Josephine's husband was William but was passed on orally to my generation so it may well be wrong.

Seeing the Census you posted, Alberto Lise was born around the same time as Josephine so it may well be him. Unless Antonio Lise was having an affair with Josephine ... possible? 8O

The birth certificate of William Lise (B:1913, Josephine's child) will confirm the name.

Thanks again for all your help!

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 16:29

Can anybody help me guess the names of these cities? Very hard to read...

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 13 Sep 2006, 17:57

Top one looks like Milano... ?

Magnano

San Guisto
----------------------------------
Maria

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 18:51

Doh! Forgot about the possibility of Milano...

Thank you!!

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 13 Sep 2006, 20:46

I'm still having doubts about the Milano one... but if you tell me which manifest if came from... I could do a better check...

Maria

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 13 Sep 2006, 20:55

It's Alberto Lise's manifestfrom ellisisland under birthplace.

mfjp · Post by **mfjp** » 13 Sep 2006, 21:28

maybe... Meano...

Just doing a further check...

Maria

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 14 Sep 2006, 06:16

You might be right there. Thanks Maria for your input! So this Alberto Lise was born in Meano (there are four Meanos in Italy) and his last residence in Italy was in "San Giusto" (probably the one in Torino.

I'm doing my homework for when I get the birth certificate of my grandfather...

Marcialise · Post by **Marcialise** » 14 Sep 2006, 06:48

I've got a death certificate of William Lise (B 1913, D 1970) and it says his father was Joseph Lise. So that Alberto Lise, Sannia, Antonio etc etc is irrelevant it appears.... sorry ... my bad

Joseph can be Giuseppe as well I guess. Aaaah, it's so complicated..

I'll have to do some research with Joseph Lise now...

Found an Ellis Island record under Joseph Lise but he was born in 1881 so if it was him, he would have been 32 and Josephine Toia 18... hmmm ... unlikely?

Found "World War I Draft Registration Cards, 1917-1918 Record" for Joseph Toia on Ancestry... but again i don't have access to this. Can anybody possibly help?

Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfather.

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Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath

Re: Lise: Surname of g g grandfather and missing g grandfath