Naturalization Document Question

[etrooney]

I appreciate any help that you may be able to provide. I've done some research, but wanted to run this by all of the knowledgeable people on this forum.

My Great Grandfather, Salvatore, immigrated in 1903 or 1904. He wasn't in the 1910 census, but showed up in the both the 1920 and 1930 versions. He was considered an alien in the 1920 version, but is indicated to have been naturalized in the 1930 census.

His son, my Grandfather (father's side), was born in 1911 in Lodi Township, Bergen County, NJ. This is also where the family resided.

So, it seems that first step would be to garner my Great Grandfather's naturalization papers.

As I understand, I need to write both the Bergen County Clerks Office and the USCIS at Lee's Summit, MO using the G-639 form. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ll be looking for a Certificate of Naturalization from the USCIS, but am unsure as to what to expect from Bergen County. Will they send a similar document or will it be more along the lines of “No Record?â€

[Nello-LosAngeles]

Hello,
I am in the same phase as you are. Your assumptions are correct. FORM G639 say mail to MO address. I was told by the Los Angeles consulate to mail to an "I" St, Washington DC address. I pondered that before mailing and sent to DC. Who knows!

The County Superior Court did naturalizations also, but you know that. In your case you know he naturalized, so you need a copy to varify that his son was born before that date. As long as you get a certified copy from one or the other you should be fine. If he had not naturalized then you need to get the "No record" letter.
That's my understanding.

Have you requested doc from Italy? How di you pay for them. Can't seem to get an answer to that question.

Nello

[mler]

Well, etrooney, it seems that you are in luck because your grandfather did naturalize. If he did so in the time period you mention and in the New York/New Jersey region, his Declaration of Intent, Petition, and Oath of Allegiance will be on file at the NARA offices on Varick Street in NYC.

http://www.archives.gov/northeast/nyc/faqs.html

If you visit their office with the pertinent information, they will be able to retrieve these for you within an hour (and certify them as well). You can also request this information by mail or on-line. It will take approximately two weeks.

Both the NYC and Newark consulates accept these papers in lieu of an actual certificate. (The Oath has the actual date of naturalization written on it.) Be sure, however, to request certified copies.

By the way, I found my grandfather's petition number through www.ancestry.com If you have this information, it will speed up the process.

The document that will be most time consuming to obtain is probably your great grandfather's birth certificate, so you should request that as soon as possible.

Nello, you can obtain birth certificates from Italy directly through the commune or use a service (at a cost). I used ICGS, but recent postings indicate that they have been moving slowly of late. You may also want to try
www.myitalianfamily.com
I have not used their service, however, so I cannot comment on their reliability.

[etrooney]

Nello and Mler, thanks for your replies.

As I currently reside in Utah, and am in the SF district, I downloaded their list of requirements, but am a bit confused with it all.

Their list states that if my Great-Grandfather's certificate of naturalization isn't available I need a statement from the USCIS at Lee's Summit, MO and from the county in which he resided.

If I were to go online at archive.gov and order a copy of the papers through there, would this then suffice as the "Certificate of Naturalization," only cover the county requirement or suffice for neither?

Nello, can you give me that "I" street address?

Thanks very much for all of your help.

[trjleste]

Hi guys. Actually the info about te national archives is correct. Contact them about a search for a naturalzation record. Name of person, place of birth and country of birth are needed as well as any other info you have.
the uscis office you need is in dc, although the other may serve as well. This is the correct address, and it takes a long time.
Give them the same info as the nat archivvs, but you will need a death certificate copy or an obituary copy. You do not need to use the form g, whatever they call it, but you do need to write a letter. The addres i found on the website is:

US Citizenship and Immigration Services
ATTN: FOIA/PA Section
111 Mass Ave NW (2nd Floor)
Washington, DC 20529

[mler]

You may want to check with the SF consulate. If they accept the Oath as do other consulates, it will save you a great deal of time.

[etrooney]

Thanks for your responses. I'll check with the consulate . If I were to send requests to both venues, do you think there would be any problem?

Trjleste, can I ask where you found that address on the USCIS site? I couldn't find it anywhere.

Thanks again.

[Nello-LosAngeles]

etrooney.

The address I have is
US Immigration and Naturalization Service
425 "I" Street NW
2nd Floor
ULLICO Building
Washington DC. 20536.
I have three addresses and I could not get clarification an which to use. This one comes from the L.A. consulate and myitalianfamily. That doesn't mean it's correct one.

As other have said, I believe if you have one valid copy of naturalization from somewhere, that is enough. As previously stated the multiple checks are needed when we get "no records found." I am going to be in this category.

The National Archive is a depository for whatever records they receive. In our case, if a county government "chose" to send its aging records to the Archive they store them. Not all counties did that. Additionally, the records are not all in one place. The National Archive in Laguna Nigel Calif. has been given court records for Los Angeles County and San Diego County. If San Francisco gave the records to an Archive I'd bet it is this one. You should check their site.

Nello

[Nello-LosAngeles]

Etrooney,

Correction! Ijust looked up Natioal Archives and see there is one in San Francisco, CA.
Nello

[mler]

Just a quick note. If you're looking through the archives (NARA), you need to make your request in the district in which the naturalization took place. The Archives only maintain regional records.

[etrooney]

Thanks again for your replies.

I guess where I'm confused is with the document from the SF consulate. For the certificate of naturalization it states:

- - - -

YOUR (Great Grand)FATHER’S CERTIFICATE OF NATURALIZATION or his Italian passport and permanent resident card (“green cardâ€

[Nello-LosAngeles]

Etrooney,

We need to "prove" with documents that, if naturalization of (grandfather) occurred, it happened after the US decentant's (father) birth. Further affirm that (father) did not denounce Italian Citizenship. My understanding is if you have varification of naturalization from one source that is enough.

If he (grandfather) DID NOT naturalize then you must "prove" he did not. That where all the other places come into play.

Nello

[mler]

Nello is correct, and unfortunately the SF consulate seems a lot more demanding than some of the others. However, you have no choice and must deal with the consulate in your jurisdiction. Since you know your grandfather did naturalize, his certificate is likely on file. That's the good news. The bad news is that getting it will take a while.

[etrooney]

Thanks again for all your replies.