Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

MIademarco · Post by **MIademarco** » 15 Jul 2004, 06:49

My Great grandmother, Luisa Cricca, listed "Castelfragliana, Agnone" on her 1942 US alien idenity card. She immigrated in 1894 and was born in 1876. Usual search strategies on the internet revealed nothing. The spelling is clear and the person filling out the card is of Italian heritage. With the help of a friend, on visiting a town near Agnone (i.e., Castelglione Messer Marino), I asked some old men about this town. They recognized the name, said there was a medival castle by this name, but never heard of a town. Outside of town, following their directions, I found on top of a isolated peak (1414 m) the ruins of an old medivial foundation. There was no evidence of a town. I am thinking perhaps this is a "dead town." How would I go about this further. Might records exist (nothing in LDS records). Michael Iademarco

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 15 Jul 2004, 08:08

there are three agnonbe in Italy is this in Isernia or Salerno province you are talking about. Did you look over ellis island for town of origin? Peter

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 15 Jul 2004, 08:24

Castelpagano is a town in the rovince of benevento with as many as 20 listings for Cricca which may ressolve this matter. Peter

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 15 Jul 2004, 12:52

are this Agnone locality:
-town: SANT'APOLLINARE (Frosinone) fraction AGNONE
-town: AGNONE (Isernia)
-town: MONTECORICE (Salerno) fraction AGNONE
-town: AUGUSTA (Siracusa) fraction AGNONE
but are many probable are this your ancestor listed Luesa(Luisa) Crecco (from reading are Cricco/Cricca) age 18 in 1895 in travel with many italian persons with surnames very misspelled.. port of departure Naples
http://www.ellisislandrecords.org/searc ... 3635110011
or
http://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EIDB ... splay=true
Go to Frame 746 and she is on line 11.

(series 237, Roll 644, Frame 746)
not are origin place, hoping help you, regards, suanj

MIademarco · Post by **MIademarco** » 16 Jul 2004, 07:02

You guys are amazing. Thanks. This Agnone is famous for bells and under Isneria, Molise. I am in the process of checking birth records for Castelpagano via church of LDS because of the current listing for "Cricca." I think the Ellis Island search for "Luisa Crecco" may be a positive hit: the age is correct, a broader search with various other spellings is unrevealing, the arrival year is correct, and the arrival city--Philadelphia--is correct. Unfortunately there is no additional information such as town of origin and person who will receive her. Do you know of any listing of dead towns or towns that no longer exist? Do you know if there is any standard system for comune record archiving when a town became dead?

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 16 Jul 2004, 13:17

MIademarco wrote:You guys are amazing. Thanks. This Agnone is famous for bells and under Isneria, Molise. I am in the process of checking birth records for Castelpagano via church of LDS because of the current listing for "Cricca." I think the Ellis Island search for "Luisa Crecco" may be a positive hit: the age is correct, a broader search with various other spellings is unrevealing, the arrival year is correct, and the arrival city--Philadelphia--is correct. Unfortunately there is no additional information such as town of origin and person who will receive her. Do you know of any listing of dead towns or towns that no longer exist? Do you know if there is any standard system for comune record archiving when a town became dead?

Hi: I live in Molise region on Adriatico sea.. Really Cricca surname not are in Molise currently, and I think are Castiglione Messer Marino(east Agnone) and Castel di Sangro(west Agnone map, but in Chieti province)....
I think probable:
-or that this town Castelfragliana are an fraction of Agnone of Isernia province
-or are Castiglione Messer Marino
-or are Castel di Sangro
-in last also Castelpagano(Benevento area)
-or Agnone not is Agnone in Isernia province, but are an other Agnone of other italian Provinces....
but my dilemma are the Agnone town mentioned ..if are wrote Agnone, sure are Agnone, the italians are many sure on its origin town..! but when...many people with Cricca/Cricco/Crecco mispelling surname coming from also Ripi town and Strangolagalli town, in Frosinone province and are also an Agnone in Sora town-Frosinone province very near Ripi and Strangolagalli.. to this URL are all ancients fraction and Common in all Campania, Molise, Abruzzo regions..
http://www.apellidositalianos.com.ar/ca ... torios.htm
please read someone place sound similar Castelfragliana..regards, suanj

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 16 Jul 2004, 17:19

I already suggested Castelpagano in benevento province and am awaiting his response. Peter

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 16 Jul 2004, 21:43

ptimber wrote:I already suggested Castelpagano in benevento province and am awaiting his response. Peter

Perhaps Peter..but sure Cricca surname are ancient origin in Frosinone province..for exemple in Casalvieri(Frosinone)are an Contrada Cricca and sure this name of Contrada has origin from inhabitants Cricca name, or viceversa..the area are: Frosinone/Isernia/Benevento ...dilemma.. other possibility are Castelfrentano, near Agnone... but in Chieti province..many regards, suanj

MIademarco · Post by **MIademarco** » 17 Jul 2004, 03:24

Thanks Peter. Suanj, family history validates the logic of the rank order of your listing of the possibilities. All of my relatives back to the great-grandfather level come from Mirabello Sannitico in Molise (I just got back from a wonderful 2 week vacation--and my wife is still there with the children). My family emigrated in phases between 1890 and 1920. By 1920 everyone had moved to the United States or was dead--leaving few or no direct relatives in Mirabello. After immigration, the older relatives were 100% successful (until 1960) in encouraging the younger generations to marry only people whose parents were from Mirabello even though they were now living in Philadelphia. In the early phases, there are several examples of the man returning to Mirabello, getting married, and returning to the United States, and leaving a pregnant wife in Mirabello. The women would follow about one to two years later with the first born child. The men did not go pick them up. The once exception is Luisa Cricca who married Michele DiGiovanni. Michele immigrated in 1890 from Mirabello. If your passenger ship information is correct, Luisa was in the United States for six months prior to getting married; she might be considered a mail order bride. In this context, I think she would be from as close to Mirabello as possible, certainly from Abruzzi-Molise (which was one Region at the time). I reviewed my records further. Luisa had a brother in Philadephila: Nicola Cricca. I only know of him becasue he represented the parents for Luisa on the marriage paperwork (Luisa was a minor at 17 or just turning 18 yo). The documents indicate the parents were in "Italy." Both Nicola and Luisa signed with an "X." Two different authors (the Philadelphia registar and a Catholic priest) on two different documents wrote "Cricca" very clearly, indicating to me that the pronounciation--dialect or otherwise--might match this spelling. She lived her entire life as "DiGiovanni" and therefore I have no other documentation of the last name except for the ID card and the marriage papers.

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 17 Jul 2004, 11:02

MIademarco wrote:Thanks Peter. Suanj, family history validates the logic of the rank order of your listing of the possibilities. All of my relatives back to the great-grandfather level come from Mirabello Sannitico in Molise (I just got back from a wonderful 2 week vacation--and my wife is still there with the children). My family emigrated in phases between 1890 and 1920. By 1920 everyone had moved to the United States or was dead--leaving few or no direct relatives in Mirabello. After immigration, the older relatives were 100% successful (until 1960) in encouraging the younger generations to marry only people whose parents were from Mirabello even though they were now living in Philadelphia. In the early phases, there are several examples of the man returning to Mirabello, getting married, and returning to the United States, and leaving a pregnant wife in Mirabello. The women would follow about one to two years later with the first born child. The men did not go pick them up. The once exception is Luisa Cricca who married Michele DiGiovanni. Michele immigrated in 1890 from Mirabello. If your passenger ship information is correct, Luisa was in the United States for six months prior to getting married; she might be considered a mail order bride. In this context, I think she would be from as close to Mirabello as possible, certainly from Abruzzi-Molise (which was one Region at the time). I reviewed my records further. Luisa had a brother in Philadephila: Nicola Cricca. I only know of him becasue he represented the parents for Luisa on the marriage paperwork (Luisa was a minor at 17 or just turning 18 yo). The documents indicate the parents were in "Italy." Both Nicola and Luisa signed with an "X." Two different authors (the Philadelphia registar and a Catholic priest) on two different documents wrote "Cricca" very clearly, indicating to me that the pronounciation--dialect or otherwise--might match this spelling. She lived her entire life as "DiGiovanni" and therefore I have no other documentation of the last name except for the ID card and the marriage papers.

Hi: very near Agnone area in Molise, also are Castelguidone, castelverrino, Casteldicroce... I think Luise ship's manifest are just ... Mirabello and Agnone same area...Hope you send me Castelfragliana wrote in attachement to this mailto conceptualart@hotmail.com
this are map of Agnone area with all details http://www.maporama.it/share/map.asp?SE ... DDRESS.y=0
ditto for Mirabello Sannitico
http://www.maporama.it/share/map.asp?SE ... DDRESS.y=0

I read possible alternative spelling..regards, suanj

MIademarco · Post by **MIademarco** » 17 Jul 2004, 19:33

Sanju, I sent the ID document to the email address provided where the birthplace is spelled "Castelfrigliana." When we arrived in Castelglione Messer Marino in June and when my friend who is a native of Chieti, pronounced this place name, the old men at the bar directed us about 1.5 km up a road to castle ruins to the NW. When I look on the internet maps, which are based on driving and postal systems, you cannot see this place. However, on a older Italian paper map, there is a place labeled "Castel Fraiano" and marked with a symbol indicating a site (ie, a castle but not a town). The altitude is marked as 1415 meters, the highest place in the surrounding area on the map and I can confirm the ruins we found were at the highest place around.

ptimber · Post by **ptimber** » 17 Jul 2004, 19:45

There is no listing for either Chieti or Castel fraiano in the 1427 map for Abruzzo !! Peter

MIademarco · Post by **MIademarco** » 17 Jul 2004, 20:03

Peter in general how do you get access to these old maps? Are the electronic or paper. It is peculiar that Chieti, a fair sized town, is not listed, although it is concievable, because for example, the written history that mentions the town of my Grandfather, Mirabello Sannitico, begins around 1525. In this puzzle, what is needed is a map from around 1850, about 25 years before she was born and 45 years before she emmigrated. Michael

suanj · Post by **suanj** » 18 Jul 2004, 12:05

MIademarco wrote:Sanju, I sent the ID document to the email address provided where the birthplace is spelled "Castelfrigliana." When we arrived in Castelglione Messer Marino in June and when my friend who is a native of Chieti, pronounced this place name, the old men at the bar directed us about 1.5 km up a road to castle ruins to the NW. When I look on the internet maps, which are based on driving and postal systems, you cannot see this place. However, on a older Italian paper map, there is a place labeled "Castel Fraiano" and marked with a symbol indicating a site (ie, a castle but not a town). The altitude is marked as 1415 meters, the highest place in the surrounding area on the map and I can confirm the ruins we found were at the highest place around.

Hi, I reply you on private email..I search again..suanj

Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?

Re: Where is or How do I find Castelfragliana?