Pate families in Italy--Bondi, Caruselli, Ercoli, Picchianti

[a12j02]

The Pate family came to Italy before 1675, perhaps to Naples first, then Livorno, where they were in the trading /shipping business.

Here is one family line from England to Italy and back to England:

Giuseppe Pate married Donna Elisabetta Bondi (daughter of Lazzaro Bondi) c. 1670.
Tommaso Pate, born 1678, married Maria Antonia Caruselli (daughter of Andrea Caruselli) in 1716.
Pietro Girolamo Pate (Captain in Royal Rifles of Livorno) born 1726, married Barbara Ercoli (daughter of Ottavio Ercoli) in 1752.
Tommaso Pate born c. 1755, died 1832, married Rosa Maria Picchianti (daughter of Giovanni Battista Picchianti) in 1783.
Pietro Paolo Luigi Antonio Pate, born in Livorno in 1793, married an Englishwoman and they moved back to England in the mid-1800s.

More detail can be provided on these families and their children if requested.

A. J. Pate
Houston, Texas

[jmhellings]

I have a family history written by my relative Rosa Lees the daughter of Pietro Paolo, below is part of the introduction to the transcription:


Rosa Lees was born in 1845, the daughter of Peter Paul Pate and his wife Sophia Matilda (née Fry). Theirs is an interesting story – Peter Paul, or more correctly Pietro Paolo, was born into the fifth generation of descendants of Thomas Pate of London, a Catholic merchant who fled England in the seventeenth century to escape the repressive laws against his religion; and Sophia was from the Fry family of Jamaica and related to the Lawrence and Felsted families, who had likewise established themselves on that island many years earlier. These families were Protestant; and a serious dispute arose with the Catholic Church when they proposed to marry. Eventually, Peter – refused permission to marry in Italy – brought Sophia to England and they married in an Anglican church in London.

here is an extract from her memories:

III. MY FATHER’S FAMILY BACKGROUND

My father, Pietro Paolo Luigi Antonio, was the younger son of Thomas Pate and his wife, Rosa Picchianti. He was born in Leghorn on the 21st of June in the year 1793. His elder brother Paul married a daughter of Giovanni Giuseppe Pastacaldi. She died young, leaving him with two sons, Joseph and Thomas, and three daughters, Adelaide, Annina and Gianna.

The Pate family had been settled in Italy for generations. They were already established in business in Leghorn in the year 1730. They were Roman Catholics, and it is conjectured that they originally left England on account of their religion. Traces of them appear in many localities, as for example in London, Gloucester, Melton Mowbray, Wisbeach and Ely.. The arms of the present Pates are those of the Melton Mowbray branch.

In the parish church of Melton Mowbray there is a fine monument to the memory of Sir John Pate, Bart. and his wife, which I shall refer to more particularly in the appendix to these records.

A good deal of mystery attaches to the death of Sir John Pate. He was first buried in St. Giles’ churchyard, London, but his body was removed some time later by his daughters and co-heiresses and placed beside that of his wife in Melton Mowbray churchyard.

I have the transcription as a word document if of interest to anyone

James Hellings
Wimbledon, England

[a12j02]

James,

I appreciate your response, and I would be grateful to receive a transcript of the document you reference.

I am the group administrator of the Pate DNA Project, and, through this genetic genealogy of DNA coupled with traditional genealogy, we are trying to link our American Pate family back to its ancestors in the British Isles. We have over 100 members, but only one from England.

We urgently seek male Pate's in Italy and the British Isles (including former colonies) to join us in this quest to preserve our heritage. Grants are available for free testing where needed.

I will be pleased to answer any questions or provide more information. All are welcome to visit our website at www.familytreedna.com/public/pate-dna-project/

A. J. Pate
Houston, Texas

[pmarfleet]

Hi

My son has just stumbled across your post and I wondered if I might have some more information to add to that left by James Hellings last year. I am a cousin, a little removed, of his and one of the descendants of Pietro Paolo Pate and Sophia Fry.

My mother, Judith Cook, collected what information she could of her ancestors and has notes on Sophia Fry's childhood in Jamaica and the circumstances of her meeting with Pietro Paolo Pate. She also made notes about the history of the Pate family in England in the 16th century, when John Pate worked as Keeper of the Wardrobe to Henry VII and Henry VIII and also speculates on the reasons for the family's departure for Livorno.

If you would like any copies of these notes please contact me.

Philippa Marfleet

[giunti.matteo]

I am trying to build a tree for this family as a part of my Leghorn Merchant Networks project. Check my blog at http://leghornmerchants.wordpress.com and the database: http://gw0.geneanet.org/index.php3?b=al ... =N&x=0&y=0

Please get in touch.

[chrisWNZ]

Hi Phillipa

I am writing connection with your following post

"My mother, Judith Cook, collected what information she could of her ancestors and has notes on Sophia Fry's childhood in Jamaica and the circumstances of her meeting with Pietro Paolo Pate.

If you would like any copies of these notes please contact me.

Philippa Marfleet"

This is just a shot in the dark and may be nothing to do with you at all but I thought it was worth a try, because wife has Fry ancestors that lived in Jamaica. There are two that I know of - one was John Fry (1774-1818) whose mother-in-law was Rachael Dunbar (nee Lawrence) of Jamaica. The other was John's daughter Mary Susannah Fry (1804-1864). Mary was widowed 3 times before marrying John Hylton of Jamaica. Her second husband was Rvnd Richard Brissett Lawrence also of Jamaica.

If you think that there might be a connection please let me know and we can exchange information.

Regards

Chris Wheeler

[giunti.matteo]

Just found Pietro Paolo PATE's grave. I'd like to get in touch with all descendants and people interested in the PATE-FRY and related families.
Get in touch on giunti.matteo @ gmail.com (delete spaces before and after the "@" to send email).
Regards

Matteo GIUNTI
http://leghornmerchants.wordpress.com

[pmarfleet]

Hi ChrisNWZ

I've only just seen your post, so sorry for the delay.

On the Fry side there were definitely some relations that were called Lawrence, although I'm not too sure of the relationship, so it sounds like it could be the same family.

If you like I could do a little more digging and see what we find.

Regards

Philippa

[chrisWNZ]

Hi Phillipa,

Thanks for your kind offer. Please do a little more digging to see what you can find - much appreciated.

Let me know what further information you need from me at this stage

Regards

Chris
(cjawheeler@hotmail.com)

[jmhellings]

Hi Chris,
If Phillipa hasn't already done so I can forward a copy of the "Dawson diary" to you. As she says there is some history of the Lawrences and Frys part of which is below.


I. MY MOTHER’S FAMILY BACKGROUND

Rosa Lees sets the scene for the account of her mother’s married life with an account of her background in Jamaica and England.

I. 1 The Lawrences

My great-grandmother, Margaret Mary (Lawrence) Felsted, was born in Kingston, Jamaica, on the 4th April in the year 1755. She died in Leghorn, Italy, on 2nd May in the year 1833 at 1 p.m. She was buried in the old British Cemetery, Via degli Elisii, near to the grave of Thomas Smollett, the great English novelist.

My sister, Sophie Dawson, has a large three-quarter oil painting of our great-grandmother, Margaret Mary Felsted. She is represented as being dark, and her hair is raised over a cushion. She is shown in the picture as wearing a dark red velvet gown with a square opening at the neck, with elbow sleeves and deep white frills. My sister considers her eldest daughter, Mary, to be very like this portrait.

In a letter of Thomas Felsted Fry to my mother in 1886 (he was her brother) he writes -

“Our Grandmother, Margaret Mary Lawrence, was an only Child and inherited her father’s estate - or Coffee Mountain as it was called - Rosemount”. etc etc

[chrisWNZ]

Hi jm
Thanks for your message - very interesting details. Phillipa has not sent the "Dawson Diary" so I would be grateful if you could pass it on. My email address is christopher.wheeler@ihug.co.nz

Thanks and Best Wishes

Chris

[pmarfleet]

Hi
It's been years since I last posted but I thought you might like to see a scanned copy of the letters and other information my mother transcribed in 1978. I have only very recently scanned them in and they form a more complete record than earlier transcripts. The Pate family descendants may be interested in the appendix which gives some idea of speculation about the Pate lineage before they moved to Italy.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1NcUHS ... hBsFtLotch

I hope the link works!

Philippa Marfleet

[jmhellings]

Hi Philippa,
The link worked fine, thank you.
Off topic but my son plays rugby at Old Wimbledonians RFC and on the clubhouse honours boards you father and uncle feature prominently.
Regards
James Hellings

[CCS]

Hi there,
This is very random… I am so pleased to have stumbled upon this page and hope despite some time since the last post that I’ll get a response. When on holiday in Italy in 2010, I bought a letter at a small market stall in Anghiari, Tuscany. The letter appealed to me as the calligraphy was beautiful and the sweeping motion of the ascenders and decenders of the characters reminded me of raindrops on a page. I also collect old letters and postcards. The letter, dated 1825, is one large piece of paper, folded and addressed with the remains of a wax seal on its reverse. It is addressed to Tom Pate, Livorno. The letter however is written in Italian. The people we were staying with at the time spoke some Italian and tried their hardest to translate the letter as best they could but the handwriting was difficult to decipher. I believe the letter talks of excavations, mines and scientific excavations. I believe it also talks of foreign agents, gossip and people who will want to wage war! I was delighted to find some information on the Pate family when I recently Googled the addressee. I would love to get a full translation of the letter which I could share with you. I have contacted the Fitzwilliam and British museum to no avail.
Should you wish to see photos please don’t hesitate to get in touch.
Charlotte, Cambridge, England

[pmarfleet]

That sounds fascinating! What a find!
If you post a scan of the letter someone may be able to work out a translation and maybe discover if it's the same branch of the family in this thread.