d'alessandro, palmieri and itri families

[Biff83]

Valarie, you're making me blush !

Have we established a birthdate or birthyear for Carmela D'Alessandro? Besides census records, Ancestry also has a likely SSDI record and a naturalization index card but I'm just not sure.
1910 census
Name: Graziano Itri
Home in 1910: Manhattan Ward 14, New York, New York
Age in 1910: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Father's Birth Place: Italy
Mother's Birth Place: Italy
Spouse's Name: Carmella
Years married: 2 (married about 1908)

And from IGG marriage records:
Groom:
Itri Graziano Jun 28 1908 Manhattan 12454
Bride:
Cesario Amela Jun 28 1908 Manhatttan 12454

Biff

[tessydales]

Hi there,
Janine says she will compare the dates to the tree she has constructed already ASAP (probably on Sunday). Most, if not all of the names are exactly the same as what she have.
However, I have a feeling she's related to Tonino's grandad (who's not a relative of mine) and not to Tonino himself. Having said that, she might still be able to help me to get to know what happened to Tonino...There must be someone in her close or non too close family who knows about him, musn't it? We'll see.
About the D'Alessandro/Itri all Nan Teresa seems to remember for the time being is that they lived in Philadelphia when she was in the US, that her father kept writing to his sister but never got a reply and at a certain point the letters started coming back to the sender as the addresse was unknown, which made her Dad terribly sad.
When questioned about her aunt's husband, Nan Teresa said her Dad only spoke abiut his sister, not her husband. She does remember the surname Itri. She's now not even sure it was Carmela's husband, but we do have a medal with the surname Itri on, which means somewhere along the line there was some sort of connection with this name.
She's only sure about the fact that these people had children, and one of them was called Teresa.
Now, Carmela D'Alessandro must have arrived somewhere. Is it possible there is no travel document for her?
Talking about the other branch of the family, do you think there is a way to get to know the Palmieri girls' husbands' names without buying the certificates (in case we get the wrong ones we hve to keep trying until we get the right ones. At least this is what I understand from the website)? Here in Italy (at least as far as I know, you ask for a document stating the person's name and his/her parents' names and you're sure to get the right one. Of course, the documents you're looking for have usually gone missing due to war, earthquake and the like...
I'll try and see Nan Teresa at the weekend (if possible. My kids have both got a flu...).
Take care,
Pippi

[tessydales]

By the way, I know it doesn't help much, but the medal reads:
Front side:
In ricordo
Prop. Tommaso
Back side:
F. Itri
The F. Itri here could be a relative, not necessarily the person we're looking for. I'll try to show the medal to Nan Teresa again (we've had it here for quite a long time). It might remind her of something.
Thanks again for the amazing job you're doing!
Pippi

[Biff83]

Pippi,

Since I'm not sure what records Janine has, below you'll find records for her great frandfather Fiorentino which you can share with her if she needs them.
1930 census
Name: Fiorentino Naimoli
Home in 1930: Manhattan, New York, New York
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Birthplace: Italy
Relation to Head of House: Head
Spouse's Name: Nina
Household Members: Name Age
Fiorentino Naimoli 40
Nina Naimoli 37
David Naimoli 12--Janine's grandfather
Elenore Naimoli 10
Robert Naimoli

WWI Draft Reg Card
Name: Fiorentino Naimoli
City: Manhattan
County: New York
State: New York
Birthplace: Italy
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1889

WWII Draft Reg Card
Name: Fiorentino Naimoli
Birth Date: 27 Jul 1889
RESIDENCE: New York, New York
Birth: Salerno, Italy

Petition for Naturalization A
Name: Fiorentino Naimoli
Record Type: Petition for Naturalization
Court Type: District Court
Court: (Rolls 0239-0272) Petition No. 45003 - Petition No. 54070
Court Location: Southern District, New York
Naturalization Record Number: 51731

Petition for Naturalization B
Name: Fiorentino Naimoli
Record Type: Petition for Naturalization
Court Type: District Court
Court: (Rolls 1259-1292) Petition No. 354051 - Petition No. 367935
Court Location: Southern District, New York
Naturalization Record Number: 355247

I'll continue to search for records for Carmela D'Alessandro.

Biff

[tessydales]

Biff,
do you really think Fiorentino is related to Tonino? I don't see the link. Was he maybe Tonino's Grandad's (or Dad's) brother or relative of some kind?
Have a good day,
Pippi

[tessydales]

Ok, maybe I understand. Tonino's grandad had two sons: Fiorentino (Janine's great-grandfather) and Michele (Tonino's Dad), right?

[Biff83]

Talking about the other branch of the family, do you think there is a way to get to know the Palmieri girls' husbands' names without buying the certificates?
Pippi

From Valarie's previous finds:
Possible husbands of Vincenzo Palmieri's daughers
Giuseppina Palmieri--Antonio Luzzi
living at 44 Grand St in 1930

Elisabetta Palmieri--James O'Keefe
living at 50 Grand St in 1930

Amelia Palmieri--Joseph Valentino
living at 25 Thompson St, just around the corner from 40 Grand Street where Vincenzo was living.

Daughter Lulu on 1910 census age 4 is not on 1920 census. She may have passed away.

Rosa Palmieri--no marriage record found on IGG

Interestingly, Fiorentino Naimoli was living at 30/32 Grand St in 1930.

Biff

[Biff83]

Ok, maybe I understand. Tonino's grandad had two sons: Fiorentino (Janine's great-grandfather) and Michele (Tonino's Dad), right?

That's correct. So Janine's great grandfather Fiorentino would have been Tonino's uncle; Michele would have been Janine's grandfather David's uncle; and Janine's grandfather David and Tonino would have been first cousins.

Biff

[tessydales]

Yes, living so close they MUST be the ones we're looking for.
Shall I buy the marriage certificates, then, so as to be sure it's them and go looking for their children? Or do you think we can be pretty sure it's them and go on with the search?
Was there a Census in 1940? Valarie gave children's names in 1930, but there might be more in a later Census.
About Fiorentino, small world, eh? Not surprising, though, Nan Teresa says that friends kept writing to friends to come over, so one followed the other. All these people were all form a tiny village near Salerno, which was not that big itself...

[tessydales]

I've sent Janine the info, asking her to read it AFTER she's made her own conclusions.

[Biff83]

I'd hold off on purchasing the certificates for a bit. Let's see what else we can turn up.

Based on Valarie's marriage record finds and census records, below are some interesting Social Security records which might lead us to some obituary information.

Help, Valarie!

Name: Joseph Valentino
Birth: 10 Nov 1903
Other: 22 May 2000, 10304, Staten Island, Richmond, New York, United States of America Civil: New York
Name: Amelia Valentino
Birth: 27 Apr 1909
Other: Oct 1981, 10308, Staten Island, Richmond, New York, United States of America
Civil: New York

Name: James Okeefe
Birth: 17 Jan 1905
Other: Oct 1972, 10302, Staten Island, Richmond, New York, United States of America
Civil: New York
Name: Elizabeth Okeefe
Birth: 20 Dec 1904
Other: Feb 1988, 10304, Staten Island, Richmond, New York, United States of America
Civil: New York

Name: Josephine Luzzi
Birth: 1 Sep 1903
Other: Aug 1981, 07047, North Bergen, Hudson, New Jersey, United States of America
Civil: New York
Other: 07047, North Bergen, Hudson, New Jersey, United States of America

Biff

[tessydales]

Does this mean Josephine's husband Anthony was dead by the time the info was recorded?
What does 'Other' mean here? I mean, what info is given under that heading?

[Biff83]

Name: Joseph Valentino
Birth: 10 Nov 1903
Other: 22 May 2000, 10304, Staten Island, Richmond, New York, United States of America Civil: New York
Joseph Valentino, 96, owned shoe repair shop--same occupation as on 1930 census
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyric ... e_00.shtml

Biff

[vj]

Name: Joseph Valentino
Birth: 10 Nov 1903
Other: 22 May 2000
10304, Staten Island, Richmond, New York
Civil: New York

Name: Amelia Valentino
Birth: 27 Apr 1909
Other: Oct 1981
10308, Staten Island, Richmond, New York
Civil: New York

Name: James Okeefe
Birth: 17 Jan 1905
Other: Oct 1972
10302, Staten Island, Richmond, New York
Civil: New York

Name: Elizabeth Okeefe
Birth: 20 Dec 1904
Other: Feb 1988
10304, Staten Island, Richmond, New York
Civil: New York

Name: Josephine Luzzi
Birth: 1 Sep 1903
Other: Aug 1981
07047, North Bergen, Hudson, New Jersey
Civil: New York

Hi, I'm back.
I was replacing my 'squirrel proof' bird feeder - there is no such thing .
Biff, great records!
I'll check for obituaries.
Valarie

[Biff83]

Does this mean Josephine's husband Anthony was dead by the time the info was recorded?
What does 'Other' mean here? I mean, what info is given under that heading?

The Other field shows the date of death and the last residence.

I'm not sure that the record for Josephine is correct although the year of birth looks right, and was unable to locate a possible record for husband Anthony.

I'm just fishing to see what might turn up. In the case of Joseph Valentino, shoemaker, we have a decent lead. Hopefully, there's an obituary out there somewhere which will give his wife's name (and hopefully maiden name), children and grandchildren's names.

Biff