Carpathia crew manifest help please?

[Essgee]

Maria.......

The Yuan listed is written on the manifest as Ivan. Also it lists a wife so I don't know if this could be him.

Do you think he may have been rescued from a sinking ship, had once traveled on the Carpathia and the stories got mixed? Very interesting abot the S. S. Guilia.......

Kristina......

That is wonderful that you found him! What great luck. And you were wise to take the advise of Maria......it costs only an e-mail or a letter or a phone call to get to the bottom of a lot of things. You good decision paid off. Now, you will start to become the expert on your family line! And to think, a couple of years ago this would never have crossed your mind, probably......and now you are hooked. Family is like that, you know.

Best of luck finding out all you can...........

[mfjp]

Spelling Alternatives....

First Name: Giovanni
Last Name: Cerniul
Ethnicity: Italian, Italian
Last Place of Residence:
Date of Arrival: May 01, 1923
Age at Arrival: 28y Gender: M Marital Status:
Ship of Travel: President Wilson
Port of Departure: Trieste, Italy
Manifest Line Number: 0013
http://ellisisland.org/search/shipManif ... 0283%2ETIF


Maria

Just noticed something on this manifest about the passenger on line 1, he was rescued from the sinking ship of S.S. Giulia and maybe brought onto the President Wilson... wonder what that was all about!!!


Also... here's an Albona surname list

Cergnul Cergnuli ÄŒERLJENKO ÄŒERNJUL

and that mysterious... Mikulian/Miculian... should be...Micuglian???

Link to Albona - Labin Region Surnames

As for Blatto.. could be Blato ... a town in the interior of the island of Korcula... would certainly explain all those seamen...

Did anyone translate Matteo's letter?

Maria

Hi Kristina,

Found the manifest I was talking about.... but I don't think it's him as the birth year is off by 6 years.. plus he was married...

Maria

Hi EssGee

Close but no cigar eh? Yes, noticed he was married... so Ivan is not Giovan.. I thought it was the same name type...

I thought Juan, Ivan, Giovan, John were all the same name!!

I started to look for the S.S. Giulia... and then just steered of course.... (that's why the 4 edits on the above post... always something new to find out there)

I too had wondered whether the stories got mixed...

That poor sailor... Tampero.... on line 1... wonder what happened to the rest of the people on board... (if any)

I don't think the "ex" S.S. Giulia was a passenger ship as I did some looking through the Ellis Island ships list....
------------------------

Everytime I look for John's 1913-14 manifest, something interesting always shows up... here's a sailor with a similar surname.. but in some hot water...

Emile Cernelz the Stowaway...
----------------------------------------------------

I know Kristina is looking forward to lots of info in the near future !!

EssGee.. you need to post more often... you actually "listen" to what I write...

Maria

Labin/Labino auch Castro d' Albona

[mfjp]

Or even better yet....

All Florida Passenger Lists, 1898-1951 Results
Florida Passenger Lists, 1898-1951 Record
about Giovanni Cergnul

Name: Giovanni Cergnul
Arrival Date: 7 Oct 1914
Birth Date: abt 1894
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Nationality/Race: Croatian
Ship: Borneo
Port of Departure: Fiume, Austria
Port of Arrival: Tampa, Florida
Last Residence: Austria
Birth Location: Austria
Birth Location Other: Albana
Microfilm Roll Number: m1844_17
Page: 015
Line Number: 5

Sister Maria is next of Kin in Albona....

Off to join "none" in PA

Link to Giovanni Cergnul's Manifest 1914 page 1

Page 2

Please note that he also has his name tatooed on his right arm!! Look at all those sailors he travels with... also, I think his occupation is FRMN... or fireman...

Maria

Further.... wonder if Dominik Miculian (sp) is on this ship....

[nuccia]

Maria...

Should we start celebrating now???

Great find. You have been at this for weeks and I'm sur Kristina is going to appreciate all this!

You really rock with these manifests, girl!

nuccia

[mfjp]

Thank you Nuccia...

Well... talk about getting a second wind... not to mention my dignity....

I hope this is the one manifest that will convince Kristina... but she'd be the best judge....

Better yet, Silvana posted days ago... and I am really hoping she see's these posts... sent her an email back then... but no reply....

Her mother Maria just may be Giovanni's relative...

Hello, my name is Silvana and I am looking for any information to find my relatives from northern Italy/ Istria/ Yugoslavia

Father was Gino Vadigno born in Atignana D'Estria
Mother was Maria Vadigno/nee Cergnul born in San Martino Albona

Any help/ideas ??
Silvana

She also wrote...

Hello Kristina - my name is Silvana and I have sent you an email (I got some names mixed up in that) to try and contact you after seeing this forum.
My mother was Maria Cergnul born in San Martino Albona
Her mother was Giovanna Cergnul and her father was Matteo Cergnul who worked in the Navy and went to America all through the early 20's and 30's.
My mother had 1 sister name Emilia and 9 brothers including Goeseppe, Fanko, Matteo, Giovanni. I am also trying to find my ancestors from that region.

If anyone can help Silvana, please see

Link to Silvana's post

Maria

[cerg]

Hello Maria,

I just checked my post and you have been busy!!! This Giovanni in Florida sounds promising! Did you happen to find Dominic?

The only thing that puzzles me is that the Naluralization papers state the Carpathia.... and I have the record of arrival stating the same information? It is possible that there was a mix up , all the information sounds like him. The other thing that I noticed is the date, he was married to my grandmother Dolly in 1918.

I also found out from Joe ( guy in canada) that Giovanni's birth place is now days called Beloti.

When I looked at the manifest in the spot where it says "AlbanaAustria sister Maria" does it look like it could be for the person on the manifest above Giovanni? you read these manifests much better than I do but I thought that I would ask.

Thanks,
Kristina

[cerg]

Just a quick questions:

Would a tattoo be listed as a visible distinctive mark ? On his NA Certificate it asks that question, all that is in the part is that he had a mashed finger tip on the right hand.

Of course he could have for some reason not mentioned his tattoo...


Just a thought

Kristina

[mfjp]

Hello Maria,

I just checked my post and you have been busy!!! This Giovanni in Florida sounds promising! Did you happen to find Dominic?

I think after this ... I'm taking a break honey.... No.. didn't find Dominick Miculian... if that's who you are talking about.. but the passenger on line 2 has an interesting surname....

I kind of ran out of steam as I went to bed at about 5:00 am... wasn't going to look for him then...

The only thing that puzzles me is that the Naluralization papers state the Carpathia.... and I have the record of arrival stating the same information? It is possible that there was a mix up , all the information sounds like him. The other thing that I noticed is the date, he was married to my grandmother Dolly in 1918.

The only thing that puzzles you??

What's wrong with the marriage date of 1918?? I'm too lazy to figure out what you are saying... Please explain what you mean.

I don't believe all the paper work out there... I can't tell you how many times I looked through that Nov. 24, 1913 roll...

I strongly suggest you order the film and search yourself in large format at a FHC... and look page by page as I have done... over and over and over and over again... and more....

Nor did I ever believe he was on the waters April 1912..

I also found out from Joe ( guy in canada) that Giovanni's birth place is now days called Beloti.

I think that's cool... but where in Canada... or what area?

When I looked at the manifest in the spot where it says "AlbanaAustria sister Maria" does it look like it could be for the person on the manifest above Giovanni? you read these manifests much better than I do but I thought that I would ask.

no ... definately not... the Maria mentioned was listed as the mother ...then crossed off... then "sister" written next to it...

I don't know what else you need as proof... I jumped for joy when I saw this manifest... Even on one of the census records, it mentions 1914... doesn't it... but that's just a fluke too??

Also... just so I do understand ... in 1920 he was a miner and a seaman?

As for what's on the manifest...

He's a Fireman... the age is right... the timeframe is right... his sister... I think is right.... travels with sailors... is right... I think maybe you should check his physical features from this manifest against any other manifest you are convinced is his...

But I'm taking a break from this one... I've done my work here...

Thanks,
Kristina

Yup... Maria

[mfjp]

Just a quick questions:

Would a tattoo be listed as a visible distinctive mark ? On his NA Certificate it asks that question, all that is in the part is that he had a mashed finger tip on the right hand.

Of course he could have for some reason not mentioned his tattoo...


Just a thought

Kristina

Ask someone from your family about the tatoo... I can't answer that one... sorry...

How many tatoos don't we see... not always visible... ?

How on earth is the NA office going to check for tatoos unless you strip down at their office...

I don't know... maybe it's something he never told them in writing...

Maybe it's a good question to pose at all the other forums you posted at... more opinions wouldn't hurt eh?


I think you need to check out the physical description against the other manifests... But I guess you've already done that? Please do compare height size hair whatever, and let me know what you find...

Also, it's a shame that employees on a ship weren't asked the same questions as the passengers were...

There's only limited space on a manifests for information... and with the traffic flow of passengers... we are damned lucky to be able to review what we can 100 years later...

Also, we can dish out the visible documents for you... at some point you will have to take what we have given to you and verify yourself...
It's a good rule to follow...

I've emailed you a few other Giovanni Cernial Cergnul... sailor manifests by private email and through this forum.... but with little or no feedback...

Aren't you still waiting for more papers to come in?? (I can't wait myself... ) There's no sense trying to prove all this before those paper come in... should be soon right??

Hopefully, that will give you the answers you need... for all we know this could have been his 1st or 10th voyage over... but I haven't seen any other manifest out there that confirms this...

According to this manifest... it indicates that this would have been his first trip over... destination unknown.... though PA is marked on the top right of the page...

Maria

P.S. I am happy with this manifest... Here's a man with a very unique surname... plus he's from Albona... what more proof do you need...

[cerg]

Hey Maria,

I have checked the 1914 Florida manifest for the physical discription. There was two things that were not the same. It lists him as 5 feet 7 inches tall and on his NA Certififcate it lists him as 5 feet 5 1/2 inches tall. The other one was that he had black hair on the manifest and brown hair on the Certificate.

The sister Maria, I do not know if he had a sister or not... I hope that will be in the information that I have coming to me from Croatia.. I thought that someone in my family had told me in the begining of my research that Giovanni had two sisters. Maria, being one of those sisters..
That was like I said at the begining on my research and I did not make a note of it or who told me.....

As for the tattoo on his arm, I have tried to call my Uncle Tony. He is my dads oldest brother. I am hoping that when I get in touch with him that he may remember. I am also going to try and call Giovanni's sister Liela. Hopefully I wil get an answer to that question...

Joe, the guy that I have been talking to lives in I believe Thunder Bay. His family was from San Martino (sp) which was very close to Albona. Him and his sister own property there still.

The date of marriage was cconfusion on my part.. It was 6 am and I was not thinking yet.. I was mixing up the manifest from 1920 that you had posted and this manifest from 1914. So I was not understanding how he could have gotten married in Illinois in 1918 but not came here until 1920. I guess that I should finish that first cup of coffee in the morning before I try and process information... sorry about the confusion.

I hope that you know that I am greatful for all the help that you have given me..

You have given me so much useful information, I would not be this far in my research if it wasn't for you and all the other great researchers at this forum that have help me..

I have posted on alot of different forum hoping for some answers. Must of my posts have no even had 1 reply...

In my opinion this is the BEST genealogy forum out there. Everyone here is kind,helpful, and gives everyone a wonderful welcome!!!!

I thank everyone here for there time and efforts to help me find my family..

I also would like to give Maria ( Manifest reading master ) a big THANK YOU for the hours that she has put into reading all those manifest for me!!!

Thank you again and God Bless you all...

Kristina

[mfjp]

Hey Maria,
As for the tattoo on his arm, I have tried to call my Uncle Tony. He is my dads oldest brother. I am hoping that when I get in touch with him that he may remember. I am also going to try and call Giovanni's sister Liela. Hopefully I wil get an answer to that question...
Kristina

Thank you for looking into a few things today... I appreciate it!

I hope Uncle Tony can recall something like this .... but a tatoo .... you can't forget a tatoo... especially one that has a name on it...

Yes... do call Liela... maybe todays answer will be the best leap backwards ever...

I look forward to your reply... and thank you for the kind words...

The researchers here are the best!!

Edmondo takes care of us well here... giving us the best board to post visuals, audio, links, freedom... you name it... no other forum out there like this one...

Maria

[jcsm400]

Kristina........Physical descriptions can vary......Have you seen how they do height, weight, etc when new military recruits are processed???....Believe me, you would not even recognise your own son by his military description! But that tattoo is a whole other story.....Maria is very, very, rarely wrong on matching manifests!



Great find, Maria.

Virtual bar is open again. Come & join me!

jcsm

[Essgee]

Maria.......

Without a doubt this is him......also, because he is listed as a fireman, the one I mentioned before:
"Ok....

"Who is the Giovanni Cergnul who arrived NY August 8, 1920, out of the port of Trieste? Age 25, born Albona, hired on July 15, 1920 in Trieste, is a fireman, and described as being 5-8 and 160 lbs. On the ship Argentina. Is this a different Giovanni since he is in the 1920 census of Ill? or did he continue to travel on ships after moving to Illinois? Or is this simply how he paid his passage from a visit to Italy??????"

This is him as well....I would bet on it. I think the more we look, the more likely we will be to find him in the manifests...and each time his name will be different, and his height will be different as well...depending on a lot of things, the depth of the heel of his shoes being one of them........

MARIA.....YOU ARE THE BEST!

Congrats to you

[mfjp]

Hi Essgee,

Really nice to read your messages! With thanks too!! Quite the "pick-me-up".. the one I need today...

Hopefully Kristina will hear from Tony and Leila confirming whether he had a tatoo or not... I hope they can recall... I do hope Silvana returns to our forum... she'd be such a great help.

But everything else points to him... year of birth, name, occupation, immigration, a relative by the name Maria...(am I mistaken? but I thought I read in one of the posts here or there... Maria was either a sister, a mother, or both mother and sister had the same names...

On one of the papers I linked for Kristina, Giovanni could not recall his mother's surname...

Everytime I look at the Baptismal record (which was also mis-transcribed) I wonder now whether her last name was Fagodie or Iagodie.. or similar...

But when I saw that manifest, I really thought it was him too...

Kristina does follow up in time, and I would also like to say... wish there were more researchers like her...

She's doing the best she can to get all her American - Italian history sorted out first... and she has proven that by submitting a variety of Giovanni's papers.

Weeks ago, she posted in other forums where she did get some great info... so I was able to review those and move a "backwards" some... one gentleman there provided different variations of the surnames, and one that I missed alltogether...

She's also made cold calls... something that's not easy to do... of all places... Thunder Bay, Ontario where it's probably raining right now... Hearing about that call was really quite the blessing...

Our forum researchers were also #1 ... they provided census records, American military records..., manifests... everyone pitched in long before I came in.

Once again Essgee, thank you for listening and following this post... your opinion matters.

So ... we patiently wait for Kristina... (who's really got her hands full with the little guys...)

Maria

[cerg]

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to let oyu guys know that I have talked to Uncle Tony and He could not remember anything about a tattoo...

I will be able to call Aunt Liela this afternoon, so I hope for better luck with that call..

Sorry I have been away alot lately... I have been school clothes and supply shopping,eye doctors... School can not start quick enough for me.. Only 1 more week to go....

I will let you know this afternoon what I find out from my aunt Liela. Also I am expecting an email from Joe anyday with some of the information that his sister found for me.. I will post that info as soon as I get it.

I also found a couple of other Cergnul's that I am going to try and call today, hopefully I will get even more good news!!

Maria- I am starting to believe,( the more that I think about it) that the Florida manifest must be him. I am sorry that I questioned you on this manifest but I had been told my whole life about him coming here on the Carpathia. I guess that you are right, you can't always belive what is on the documents or family stories.

I have not gotten any replies from the NARA about the manifest from the Carpathia. With his Naturalization papers I had got that Record of Arrival for him also..(did I sent you that Maria?) On there it states the Carpathia also... How can they say that he was on that ship when as you have said you have gone over that manifest many times? Do you think that maybe they had a seperate sheet listing the crew members of that ship? When I had gone over the manifest I had not seen any crew members listed. I guess that is something that I will worry about if something comes up that disproves the Florida manifest, but until then I am going to go with that manifest.

you had also mentioned the spelling of Fagodi, when I looked at it again I was thinking the maybe it could be Fagoali..Fagooli. Do you have any idea how I could located the orphange that she was suppose to be in?

Sorry for the long post everyone, I will continue this later after I talk to Liela. Thank you guys for your kind words and all your help...

Kristina