Help finding immigration record and 1915 and 1920 censuses

[suanj]

OMG I wrote a long reply to you and vanished.. this is a mystery .. a window abt the saving draft… and where is the draft of my reply… mystery..
However for good luck I can reply you abt marriage tradition:
the tradition in the past was contrary to the marriage between people from another province or region .. that was how they thought it, but we are talking about so long time ago ... It was a tradition, based on the conviction that it was necessary to know the families of bride and of groom.

It was said that who "related to us", that is to say he also became relatives of the groom's or bride's family, and needs to relate by marriage with known people.
To avoid surprises.
They avoided marrying their own sons or daughters with those who had a family of undesirable origin. Or with who saying they were owners and they weren't. Or, what was promised at the time of the promise of marriage had to correspond to the truth, and in an age where there were no mass media, anyone knew each other just locally.
Marriages had to receive parental consent, ie there had to be a families consent to be related to each other through their children's marriage.
If there were ancient hatreds, feuds, or members who had not behaved properly, everything was considered and analyzed. There was talk not only of parents of future spouses, but also of grandparents and great-grandparents. Of uncles and cousins. All families were analyzed abt the behavior in the years.. If right families or not...

The bride and groom had to have consent. There had to be the pleasure of being related, and maybe to rise in the social class. It was welcome!
And the full knowledge of the families, and the seriousness of the spouses, especially of the bride, they had know only if she was from the same area.
Everyone knew everything about everyone.

If the bride and groom were of age and did not have parental consent, for some reason, they could still marry, but the families of origin did not meet and this brought problems in the future life of the couple.

Obviously who was in the US could break away from this tradition, regarding the consent of the parents, if they stayed in Italy, but however was rare to marry another Italian, from another Italian region, for other reasons, such as culture, traditions , the kitchen, the education to give to the children etc etc

suanj

[suanj]

Thank you for looking. Actually Scrofano is missing birth records 1894-1900, so would the 10 year index there even include him if he was born there?

the Birth records are no missing, just the website is in continuous updating and probably these years of birth have not yet been digitized. The ten index is affordable to 100%.
suanj

[suanj]

His obituary does claim that as his immigration date. Though I suppose it could be another false thing he told people which carried over to the point family believed it so much that it ended up in obituary. Perhaps he actually arrived closer to the date of his marriage to Josephine and this is why he can't be found in the 1915 census.

The obituary as a well the Death certificate, well, having just info provided by the informant or survivors, and are no accurate infos.. because many years passed, and the infos was recycled in the years.. It is more affordable the info provided directly by italian ancestor and the ones closest to the date of emigration, before many memories faded ..
so we don't know pefectly when he went in the USA…
best regards,
suanj

[suanj]

the most ancient info on the newspapers abt your Giuseppe is here.. I searched hoping in some light but nothing…
"Joseph Ebbo. 942 Grove avenue, was judged to have suffered the……"
https://fultonhistory.com/highlighter/h ... Page=false
suanj

[lyn1982]

OMG I wrote a long reply to you and vanished.. this is a mystery .. a window abt the saving draft… and where is the draft of my reply… mystery..

I've had that happen before too. For some reason when previewing a post the content of my posts disappears sometimes. I've found I can get it back by pressing the back button though.

However for good luck I can reply you abt marriage tradition:
the tradition in the past was contrary to the marriage between people from another province or region .. that was how they thought it, but we are talking about so long time ago ... It was a tradition, based on the conviction that it was necessary to know the families of bride and of groom.

It was said that who "related to us", that is to say he also became relatives of the groom's or bride's family, and needs to relate by marriage with known people.
To avoid surprises.
They avoided marrying their own sons or daughters with those who had a family of undesirable origin. Or with who saying they were owners and they weren't. Or, what was promised at the time of the promise of marriage had to correspond to the truth, and in an age where there were no mass media, anyone knew each other just locally.
Marriages had to receive parental consent, ie there had to be a families consent to be related to each other through their children's marriage.
If there were ancient hatreds, feuds, or members who had not behaved properly, everything was considered and analyzed. There was talk not only of parents of future spouses, but also of grandparents and great-grandparents. Of uncles and cousins. All families were analyzed abt the behavior in the years.. If right families or not...

The bride and groom had to have consent. There had to be the pleasure of being related, and maybe to rise in the social class. It was welcome!
And the full knowledge of the families, and the seriousness of the spouses, especially of the bride, they had know only if she was from the same area.
Everyone knew everything about everyone.

If the bride and groom were of age and did not have parental consent, for some reason, they could still marry, but the families of origin did not meet and this brought problems in the future life of the couple.

Obviously who was in the US could break away from this tradition, regarding the consent of the parents, if they stayed in Italy, but however was rare to marry another Italian, from another Italian region, for other reasons, such as culture, traditions , the kitchen, the education to give to the children etc etc

That is very interesting. Makes me wonder if he was actually Sicilian. But then I don't understand, why lie and claim to be from Rome, and he seemed to give places around the area of Rome for his birth. Perhaps he was Sicilian but lived in Rome in the years up to his immigration.

Josephine had siblings and a father who also immigrated, so if he was Sicilian my thinking is she and her family had to have known, otherwise maybe they wouldn't have accepted him. So maybe I'll get lucky and the naturlization papers of hers will reveal something. Niagara county historian site did email me back, they sent out for the record of Josephine's immigration. They said they want to make sure it's the right Josephine Abbo before charging me and when their office gets the record they will see whats on it. They did do a search and it appears Joseph himself never naturalized. Josephine did so in 1944 (I don't know why then the manifest claims 1941).

[lyn1982]

Thank you for looking. Actually Scrofano is missing birth records 1894-1900, so would the 10 year index there even include him if he was born there?

the Birth records are no missing, just the website is in continuous updating and probably these years of birth have not yet been digitized. The ten index is affordable to 100%.
suanj

Thank you for clarifying! There sure weren't many births in Sacrofano then it appears.

[lyn1982]

His obituary does claim that as his immigration date. Though I suppose it could be another false thing he told people which carried over to the point family believed it so much that it ended up in obituary. Perhaps he actually arrived closer to the date of his marriage to Josephine and this is why he can't be found in the 1915 census.

The obituary as a well the Death certificate, well, having just info provided by the informant or survivors, and are no accurate infos.. because many years passed, and the infos was recycled in the years.. It is more affordable the info provided directly by italian ancestor and the ones closest to the date of emigration, before many memories faded ..
so we don't know pefectly when he went in the USA…
best regards,
suanj

Good point. Though I must admit I'm stumped still because even the earliest info doesn't seem like it could be right. For example mothers name Mary Paris. Italian first name would be Maria and his wife in same record lists her mothers as Maria so it seems as if it was intentionally listed as Mary rather then Maria in the marriage record. I'm not sure what it means, if he could perhaps actually be French even? 23andme claims I have ancestors who in the last 200 years lived in France, most of them being the regions bordering Spain. Far as I know I have no French or Spanish ancestry. They are probably wrong, but I just thought it was interesting that Joseph gives French surnames and that my test claims I have French ancestry.

[lyn1982]

the most ancient info on the newspapers abt your Giuseppe is here.. I searched hoping in some light but nothing…
"Joseph Ebbo. 942 Grove avenue, was judged to have suffered the……"
https://fultonhistory.com/highlighter/h ... Page=false
suanj

Thank you for the link. Have looked on there before. Most of the stories about him are either depressing or humorous. The one where he drove into the air force base was my favorite. Sadly I too didn't find anything that would get me further back.

[lyn1982]

Interestingly there is a Giuseppe Ebboli who attempted to arrive to the US in 1911 but seems to have gotten deported. I can't make out what most of the record says. https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/EID ... =passenger Not sure if it could be mine, gives no age that I can find. Record oddly says stay on one column yet another has date for deportation.

[darkerhorse]

and abt this record… what you think?
By Frosinone archive… foundling, born from unknown parents in Rome on 18 Mar 1896, carpenter


Giuseppe
n.n.
n.n.
19/03/1896
Roma
Alvito
Sora
5579
falegname
si
si

and here the Birth record... http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 9.jpg.html
the fact that he said Domenico and Mary Paris as parents don't means that is true… I make many search that the foundling immigrated in USA , stated the names of couple who raised…
suanj

Where did you find this military record?

[darkerhorse]

What is the year?