1810 birth act - reason for father's absence - deciphering help

[rfiorille]

I would appreciate help deciphering the end of the second paragraph of this birth act that gives the reason for the father's absence.

The birth act can be found here:

http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 8.jpg.html

Please let me know if uploading the image would help.

Here is my transcription of the part I understand with a blank line showing the section I cannot decipher.

domicilianti in detta comune di San Giovanni in Galdo, il quale non si porti in nostra presenza per ______________ ad ore sei del giorno ventuno del mese di Gennaro

Thank you in advance for any and all help!

[suanj]

Hi,
"incommodi di salute"= ( old italian/dialectal word) no in good health; he was sick...
regards,
suanj

[rfiorille]

Hello Suanj,

Thank you so much for helping to decipher the script and for doing it so quickly. I was close in my own deciphering of the letters but I need a better education on dialect.

I would like to ask you one more thing if I may. Are you able to derive from the grammar that the person who is being referred to as "incommodi di salute" is the father? For example, it isn't possible that the description of "incommodi di salute" could be referring to the mother, could it?

There are other documents in the 1810 births with similar descriptions. I am deducing that all are referring to the father and NOT the mother, but I'm not certain.

Here are some other records where the father is absent (just to be clear, I'm not looking for translation on these documents):
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 4.jpg.html
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 5.jpg.html
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 7.jpg.html
http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... 4.jpg.html



Thank you,
Robert

[erudita74]

In all of the records for which you provided links,the reason for the absence refers to the father and not the mother.

Erudita

[rfiorille]

Thank you for coming back around to this post Erudita! I really appreciate it!

Can I ask you as well - is it the grammatical structure of the sentence that points to the father? Common sense makes me think that the reasons refer to the father, but google's translation isn't clear enough for me to make my own determination.

Is it referring to the father because it says "il quale" immediately after the father's name?

Thanks!

[erudita74]

I'm currently having trouble accessing the website-I'm getting a message that it is offline. I do recall that the adjectives used in three of the records were "impedito" and "zoppo," and "infermo," which are masculine because of the "o" at the end. Also, it would be "la quale," if it were referring to a female and not a male as in "il quale."

* I now can see the records on the website. The father's name is the last name mentioned before you get to "il quale," so grammatically this would also indicate that the phrase "il quale" refers to him.

It was also customary for the father to make the declaration of the birth, unless he couldn't for whatever reason. Him making the declaration at the town hall was a sign of his virility and basically was an indication to other town members that the infant born to his wife was, indeed his, and no other man's. So there was no question about his wife's fidelity to him.

Erudita

[rfiorille]

Thank you Erudita. Yes, the website is often times offline. I'm not certain why it goes down.

I really appreciate you confirming that for me and giving such a thorough explanation.

I do know from all the Italian birth records I've read that it's almost always the father who makes the declaration. I think for the most part I've only looked at the father declaring the birth from the standpoint of it being the custom. I guess I never thought about the father's "virility" and his wife's "fidelity" as a motivation or impulse for being the person to declare the birth.

Thank you for the explanation and the further insight!

Robert

[erudita74]

You're very welcome, Robert. I should add that the new mother was supposed to undergo a purification period of 40 days after giving birth meaning that, during this time period, she did not leave the house. So normally you do not see the mother making the declaration of the birth, and presentation of the infant, at the town hall after giving birth. I only recall a few instances in which the mother did do so herself, and the father was unknown. She did not attend the infant's baptism either, as it normally took place on the day of the birth, the day after, or within a few days after the birth.

Often when we see records where the father does not make the declaration of the birth himself, the reason given is just that he was absent (assente), as in the record which is to the right of the one with "zoppo" as the reason. When this is the case, and we're looking for a more specific reason for his absence, we can often use the father's occupation in the record as a clue. It's unfortunate that, in these records, there are no occupations given for the fathers. Certain occupations necessitated the father being away from the town for a period of time. For example, if the father was a pastore/shepherd, twice a year he would be away for weeks while the sheep were moved from high ground to low ground and vice versa. If he was a bracciante/bracciale-day laborer, his work could be seasonal, so often when it was winter in Italy, he might have to go to South America where the seasons were reversed in search of work. Or, in the later 1800s, he may have already immigrated to the United States, which was the case of my one grandmother's father. He was already in Brooklyn when she was born in Sicily. If he was a carbonaio/carbonaro-coal seller, he would spend days in the woods to turn pieces of wood into coal through the process of combustion,which he would then cart back to his town to sell for heating and cooking. I'm sure there are other occupations we find in the records which necessitated the father being away from his town when one of his children was born. In any case, it was the custom for the father to declare the births of his children at the local town hall, if he was able to.

Erudita