Hi All,
Longtime lurker here. I appreciate the knowledge you've all shared on this site - it's definitely been of great help! I've been working with Luigi on our 1948 but I suspect we've hit a snag. Just wanted to run it by you all to see if you had any insight before alerting Luigi. I appreciate any insight you can provide!
Me
Mother
Grandmother
Born: U.S. March 1938
Great-Grandfather
Born: Italy, February 1909
Naturalized: April 1931
Married: September 1932
Great-Grandmother
Born: Italy, November 1913
*Naturalized: June 1966
Married: September 1932
*On the facts above Luigi was confident we had a case, however, it turns out my Great-Grandmother's "Certificate of Citizenship" is an A-File - which the NARA suggested means that my Great-Grandmother derived Citizenship from her Father (my great-great Grandfather). I can get a copy of the Alien Registration and likely a Non-Existence of Naturalization ("no record") from USCIS - but will this be sufficient for the case? Is the case dead on arrival or can I save it by going up the chain some more?
Great-Great-Grandfather
Born: Italy, February 1884
Naturalized: September 1906
Married: not sure when...
Great-Great-Grandmother
Born: Italy, February 1895
**Naturalized: N/A
Married: not sure when...
**My GGGF did naturalize before my GGM was born, however, I do not believe my GGGM naturalized. Perhaps do I have a 1948 case with her?
Thanks for any insight you can provide - I do appreciate it!
Best,
Is my 1948 a dead on arrival?
Re: Is my 1948 a dead on arrival?
If your great grandmother has a Certificate of Citizenship and she was married after 1922, she did not derive citizenship from her husband. It could only have been from her father. This does tend to indicate that she naturalized as a child.
It’s important to note that a Certificate of Citizenship is only a document stating that the holder is a US citizen. It does not indicate the date of naturalization. Often when a person derived citizenship through the naturalization of someone else (usually a parent), he/she had no proof of citizenship. The Certificate of Citizenship provided them with this proof.
When there is a USCIS statement indicating no naturalization, it means that there was no naturalization in her name. That she was born in Italy but somehow became a US citizen is a situation the courts will want you to address. Unfortunately, the search will lead to her father’s naturalization when she was a minor and thus her own naturalization much much earlier than 1966.
I suspect that Luigi believes that you located an actual Certificate of Naturalization from 1966. Without that, I doubt he will suggest continuing your case.
Tracing further back is not helpful since you cannot skip generations. Try to find another line, since this one does not seem viable.
It’s important to note that a Certificate of Citizenship is only a document stating that the holder is a US citizen. It does not indicate the date of naturalization. Often when a person derived citizenship through the naturalization of someone else (usually a parent), he/she had no proof of citizenship. The Certificate of Citizenship provided them with this proof.
When there is a USCIS statement indicating no naturalization, it means that there was no naturalization in her name. That she was born in Italy but somehow became a US citizen is a situation the courts will want you to address. Unfortunately, the search will lead to her father’s naturalization when she was a minor and thus her own naturalization much much earlier than 1966.
I suspect that Luigi believes that you located an actual Certificate of Naturalization from 1966. Without that, I doubt he will suggest continuing your case.
Tracing further back is not helpful since you cannot skip generations. Try to find another line, since this one does not seem viable.
Re: Is my 1948 a dead on arrival?
OpusReticulatum pointed out an error in this statement so a correction is in order.mler wrote: 28 Sep 2018, 18:41 It’s important to note that a Certificate of Citizenship is only a document stating that the holder is a US citizen. It does not indicate the date of naturalization. Often when a person derived citizenship through the naturalization of someone else (usually a parent), he/she had no proof of citizenship. The Certificate of Citizenship provided them with this proof.
The date the Certificate of Citizenship is issued is not the same as the date of naturalization, but the certificate DOES state the actual date of naturalization.
Many thanks, OR.
Re: Is my 1948 a dead on arrival?
Thanks so much for your input - I do appreciate you taking the time!
Does it at all change the fact pattern that my GGGF and GGGM married in Italy before my GGGF's naturalization 1906? I assume this simply means that although my GGGM married an Italian, she was naturalized by virtue of her husband's later naturalization - as opposed to directly marrying a citizen?
I'm correct in assuming that there is no reprieve in the fact that my GGM was born in Italy in 1913 (after the 1912 law) as her father (and, as discussed above, her mother) were naturalized at that point?
Sorry for the follow up - it's just so wild to me that my GGGM and GGM were basically operating as "American's in Italy" despite being born in Italy and never setting foot in the U.S. until age 32 and 15 respectively... darn unilateral actions of men...
Alas, thanks so much for all your thoughts!
Does it at all change the fact pattern that my GGGF and GGGM married in Italy before my GGGF's naturalization 1906? I assume this simply means that although my GGGM married an Italian, she was naturalized by virtue of her husband's later naturalization - as opposed to directly marrying a citizen?
I'm correct in assuming that there is no reprieve in the fact that my GGM was born in Italy in 1913 (after the 1912 law) as her father (and, as discussed above, her mother) were naturalized at that point?
Sorry for the follow up - it's just so wild to me that my GGGM and GGM were basically operating as "American's in Italy" despite being born in Italy and never setting foot in the U.S. until age 32 and 15 respectively... darn unilateral actions of men...
Alas, thanks so much for all your thoughts!
Re: Is my 1948 a dead on arrival?
Doesn’t really change much. Even post-1912, your ggm would have obtained citizenship when she arrived in the US since she was still a minor at the time.
