Help with ship manifest info

Having problems with the Italian language? Do you need help to translate or understand an old family document? There is always someone who can help you!
Post Reply
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

This is my grandfather's ship manifest (SS Italia) from his emigration in 1910. He is listed on line 17 (Agostino Mattia). The writer (in Naples) was apparently Italian with English language training based on the handwriting.

All the info on page one is correct.

If you scroll over to the second page, under the friend/relative column, it appears to say "brother cousin (Bucci or Rossi) Ciro". I'm pretty certain about the Ciro part as 3 lines above my grandfather's name (page 1) is a Ciro and both names appear nearly identical.

Both Rossi and Bucci are names common to Valmontone, in fact my grandfather had brother's-in-law with both surnames (married much later, in 1917 and 1928).

So I understand "brother cousin" could refer to a close cousin -- turns out his aunt (my grandfather's mother's sister) married a Giovanni Bucci. They had a son "Pio" (b. 1887) who would be my grandfather's 1st cousin. Same parents had a daughter a few years later, but no Ciro can be found. Pio married a woman named Ciafrei from Artena in 1905.

All 3 surnames (Rossi, Bucci, Ciafrei) can be found in family trees of some of my genetic matches.

Is it possible "Ciro" was mistaken for "Pio"..? It's strange that I cannot find either a Ciro Bucci or Rossi in the communes birth acts...

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/co ... 4004062925
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

I'm leaning toward "Bucci", but I'm still confused as to the first name & why I can't seem to find any such person...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1573
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by darkerhorse »

Could it be Giulio Bucci?
User avatar
Tessa78
Master
Master
Posts: 16184
Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 18:09

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by Tessa78 »

I tried to find Ciro Bucci (and other variations of spelling) in Philadelphia records without success.
Both Agostino and the passenger above him, Giovanni Proscia, were from Valmontone, AND both were going to an address on H St. in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, sometimes these addresses are ticket/steamship offices.

T.
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

Tessa78 wrote: 08 Sep 2021, 18:15 I tried to find Ciro Bucci (and other variations of spelling) in Philadelphia records without success.
Both Agostino and the passenger above him, Giovanni Proscia, were from Valmontone, AND both were going to an address on H St. in Philadelphia. Unfortunately, sometimes these addresses are ticket/steamship offices.

T.
Tessa,

Proscio is a common Valmontone name. I believe a spouse on one of my grandmother's lines is a Proscio, but not a direct relation to me.

I read the address as 917 South 8th St. This address exists, while the H St address does not.

Thank you for checking into Ciro. I guess he's still an enigma...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

Not only can't I find Ciro Bucci, but I can't find Giovanni Proscio, either. About to check neighboring communes...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1573
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by darkerhorse »

Why are you searching for the name?
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 09 Sep 2021, 01:22 Why are you searching for the name?
Looking for possible relationships. All these surnames are either in my tree or encircle it. Trying to possibly find connections with the few genetic matches I have for my Italian side...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1573
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by darkerhorse »

It seems strange your grandfather would move far way from Bucci within three years of arriving, if they were close relatives.

Maybe Bucci repatriated.
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1573
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by darkerhorse »

Or maybe he moved too.
darkerhorse
Master
Master
Posts: 1573
Joined: 11 Jun 2020, 18:31

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by darkerhorse »

I'd say the likeliest candidates are Giulio who arrived in 1906 to join Coccia and Pio who arrived in 1909 leaving behind his wife Ciafrei.

Can you tie the Bucci on S. 8th St to the Proscio on S. 8th St.?
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 09 Sep 2021, 04:09 It seems strange your grandfather would move far way from Bucci within three years of arriving, if they were close relatives.

Maybe Bucci repatriated.
As of the 1920 census, he was in Detroit living with his sister & brother-in-law. He went back to Italy in 1922 to marry my grandmother & bring her back.

his sister had emigrated before him, so I believe they were already established in the Detroit area. I confirmed that his brother-in-law, Alfredo Rossi, also worked as a machinist at Ford (according to that same 1920 census)...
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
User avatar
MarcuccioV
Master
Master
Posts: 865
Joined: 11 Jan 2021, 17:49
Location: West Hills, CA USA

Re: Help with ship manifest info

Post by MarcuccioV »

darkerhorse wrote: 09 Sep 2021, 04:37 I'd say the likeliest candidates are Giulio who arrived in 1906 to join Coccia and Pio who arrived in 1909 leaving behind his wife Ciafrei.

Can you tie the Bucci on S. 8th St to the Proscio on S. 8th St.?
I vote for Pio, as he was his first cousin. I cannot tie these two, but found a later US marriage between a Proscio & Bucci, so the families were obviously intertwined. if I researched further, I'm sure I'd find the same in Italy in a prior gen.
Mark

If you ignore your foundation, your house will eventually collapse...
Post Reply