Antonette Massanelli Mystery Grows

[maestra36]

There are a number of possibilities, Chris. The father may have been a married man, a member of the clergy (priests often had mistresses), or he may have been a nobleman or rich landlord. If she fathered children with any of these types of individuals that doesn't mean she was a prostitute, although oddly enough I just started reading a book about prostitution in Italy.

I know you don't want to take my advice. Chris, but since your father went to Calvary cemetery and you should now know the location of the grave, I really think you should call the office at Calvary cemetery and just ask for the exact date of burial for Antoinette (if he didn't secure that information from the office for you). I think that will help you determine if the death certificate you now have in your possession belongs to your ancestor or not. I honestly don't believe that it does.

Peg

[suanj]

who know?
Maybe she joined only at one man that no recognized the children.. who now...? In the censuses appearing widow, but never married really... maybe she declared itself widow because no wish say the truth.. it is possible... I searched again the birth record of Giovanna Missanelli but no found, maybe she had another first name in Italy... for what i read by civil records, a Missanelli in Anzi had the title of "Don".. I know no as to translate it in english, but meaning as "Lord" in some way.... for bad luck on ancestry.com the civil records starting from 1860s... otherwise was possible to search Rosa birth record....

In you genealogic tree on ancestry.com, maybe you can correcting the Antoinette birth place .. it is Anzi and not Laurenzana...
suanj

[maestra36]

Suanj
The title Don used for men means "Lord" and the title "Donna" used for women meant Lady. These titles were used by members of the upper class or property owners), Don was also a title used by priests.
Peg

[maestra36]

Lord or master of an estate, just to clarify.

[suanj]

Thanks, but because this Missanelli in Anzi was proprietor, "Lord" is in this right sense..
I checked in Anzi civil records, from 1877 to 1897 for a probable marriage of Rosa with a Esposito... nothing.... it is a mystery...
suanj

[MaurizioPerrone]

Ok, so now I have confirmed that Antonette and Maria Carmela were BOTH born to unknown or unrecognized fathers. Can I take it to mean that perhaps the mother Rosa was not such a nice person?? I know this is crazy, but it is sounding more and more like Rosa was perhaps a prostitute?

This woud be a very unfair judgement for your ancestor, because an unmarried woman has a child does not mean she is prostitute. Many women today have child from man they are not married to, they are not prostitute.

What is significant is the Italian law, which protected the anonymous identity of the father and the mother when the parents are not married. So, if father will not recognize child, his name is not written. And if mother does not recognize child also, her name is not written. Then the baby is given to the orphanage or maybe some family in the town. The law protect the parent, and also the safety of the child because mother is not force to recognize child. Mother can safely abandon child rather than leave the baby in the woods or some dangerous place, you understand?

These illegitimate children were called trovatelli and it was very common situation.

I think to guess, that maybe your ancestor had relationship with some married man, maybe she work for him? Since you have no knowledge of his name in your family, probably will be very difficult to know his identity.

[chrisdamato]

Not knowing the customs of Italy, it was a question I had to ask. I am now trying to locate information on the two sisters, Giovannina and Maria Carmela. The census records show that Maria came to the U.S. in 1891 with her son Michael. I cannot locate anything in Castle Garden or Ellis Island with their names. Then the 1930 census says that Maria came over in 1907. Not sure which is correct.

It is my hope that I can generate some pertinent information based upon those records. I am sending for their death certificates as well. I wonder who will be listed as father on them??? If same person, it will pretty much confirm for me.

[chrisdamato]

Since Giovannina's birth record cannot be found, is it possible that she was born in a different town? I believe her actual name is Maria Giovanna Missanelli.

[PeterTimber]

what town was she born in?? =Peter=

[maestra36]

Chris
I had thought about you sending for the Manhattan marriage record of Vincenzo Mento and Giovanna, but I am not sure that a record that early will yield any info.

[suanj]

I just found Antonette's sister Maria Carmela Missanelli in the birth records for Anzi. She was born in 1867. Could someone please take a look at this record and tell me:

1) What the exact date of birth
2) Is there a father listed

She married Giovanni Marcoguiseppe in Anzi in 1886. It is record #3 for that year. Is there a father listed on that record?

In the marriage act(#7 and not#3) Maria Carmela Missanelli is daughter of unknown father and of Rosa Missanelli

[maestra36]

Chris
I found a Michele Marcogiusppe on Castlegarden. Arrival on the Lombardia Oct 7, 1904

Giacomo di Fisio as nearest relative in U.S.
531 Broome Street

[maestra36]

Giovanni Marcogiuseppe is on the same passenger list

[maestra36]

The problem though is that this Giovanni's wife is Angela and there was another child with them named Antonio.

[chrisdamato]

They had a son Anthony, born in about 1898. Does that match what's on the manifest? The son Michael was born in about 1890-91. Does that match with Michele?