1930 Census list my GGfather as an alien

[lanycla]

I am just starting my quest into gaining dual citizenship and I believe I am eligible. In the 1930 census my GGfather and GGmother are listed as aliens. This is the earliest census I can find them in. They arrived in 1898 and 1902 respectively. How do I go about proving they were never naturalized? My Gfather was born in 1908 in New York City and they moved to NJ somewhere around 1910-11. There names are Giovanni (John) and Carmella Carucci.

[DebiHarbuck]

Can you offer a little more information (approximate birth dates for Giovanni and Carmella? Your grandfather's given name?) that might help us to place them?

[lanycla]

Giovanni Caruccu was born 6/6/1876 in Caggiano, Providence of Salerno, Itlay. He arrived her in 1898. Carmella (maiden name Isolvi) was born 11/5/1873 in Caggiano. She arrived in 1902 (I have a manifest that says she was meeting her husband Giovanni who lived on Mulberry St. My grandfather, Anthony (Antonio on his birth certificate) was born in NYC 2/21/1908 on Mulberry St. I have his birth certificate. There are others with the name Carucci on Mulberry St, but none matching my family. 2 other children were born before Anthony-Sebastian and Joseph. The next child that was born was born in NJ.

Thank you for your help.

[johnnyonthespot]

Actually, you don't want to prove they were never naturalized; you want to prove your great-grandfather did naturalize and that he did so after your grandfather's birth (and preferably after July 1, 1912).

Why? Because it is far easier to prove that naturalization did occur then to prove that it did not, and because the consulates can and do make applicants jump through hoop after hoop after hoop in the latter case.

To satisfy the consulate that your great-grandfather did not naturalize, you will need:

a) Letter of "No Records Found" from the United States Citizenship & Immigration Service (USCIS).

b) Letter of "No Records Found" from the United States National Archives

c) Letter of "No Records Found" from the state, county, and local courts of every district in which your great-grandfather ever resided while in the US.

d) Very often, certified copies of one or more US censuses dated after the birth of your grandfather which show your great-grandfather listed as an ALien or as PApers. Certified census copies can be ordered from the National Archives.

Copied and pasted from ther posts of mine (I'm feeling lazy just now):

The National Archives is both an inexpensive and fast way to obtaiin naturalization docs; unfortunately for many parts of the country, NARA only holds naturalization records from the federal courts. Start here https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonl ... chives.gov and click Order Reproductions, then Immigration & Naturalization Records. There is no charge unless they find a record and only a very reasonable charge if they do ($7.50 for non-certified, $22.50 for certified copies). You will need certified copies for your application (if the archives finds anything).

For USCIS, begin here and request an "Index Search" ( http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/ ... 18190aRCRD ). If the Index Search turns up a citizenship file ("C" File), then you would follow up with a "Records Request" to obtain the actual documents.

I hope this helps you get started on this research.

[johnnyonthespot]

PS: The name Caruccu does not exist today in the Italian telephone directory. There are 726 listings for Carucci. I submit to you that this is the correct spelling of your family name. See http://www.paginebianche.it/execute.cgi ... btt=1&om=0

[DebiHarbuck]

I knew there was a reason we'd want to find those other census records.

I did note in the 1930 census record that it says "NA" very clearly next to both of their names and then there is a faint "X" and the letters "AL" are penciled in. That's a new one for me.

[johnnyonthespot]

It is a long, long, longshot, but this could possibly be your great-grandfather in the listing on this page: http://italiangen.org/nassauresults.asp ... nter=exact

[Tessa78]

It is a long, long, longshot, but this could possibly be your great-grandfather in the listing on this page: http://italiangen.org/nassauresults.asp ... nter=exact

Hi Carmine,

According to the Family Tree on Ancestry for John Carruci, he died in 1933 in Hackensack, NJ.

T.

[johnnyonthespot]

It is a long, long, longshot, but this could possibly be your great-grandfather in the listing on this page: http://italiangen.org/nassauresults.asp ... nter=exact

Hi Carmine,

According to the Family Tree on Ancestry for John Carruci, he died in 1933 in Hackensack, NJ.

T.

Well, then I suppose he probably didn't naturalize in 1939...

[Tessa78]

Funny, I was thinking the same thing

T.

[lanycla]

Thanks everyone-

First off I have to say that was typo in the name. It is Carucci, so Carmine, you are correct. And yes, John did die in 1933 in Hackensack.

So now I have a question. On my father's side of the family, my ggrandfather Nicholas Annitti (Annit, Jannitti, Annit) was born in Italy and came to the US as a small child with his mother Rachel Matteras (Father Louis was already in residence, but I can't find a record of his arriveal.). He arrived on 10/1/1896. Based upon later census records, both his parents were naturalized in approx 1900. I am still looking for these records. It my understanding that if they were naturalized prior to 1912, I am not eligible for citizenship through this side of my family. Is this correct?

Lisa

[johnnyonthespot]

Putting aside 1912 for a moment, if Nicholas' father became a US citizen at any time while Nicholas (Nicola?) was still a minor, then under US law, Nicholas/Nicola automatically naturalized along with him. If Nicholas/Nicola was still resident in Italy at the time, then the moment he set foot on US soil he became a US citizen. The consulates are well aware of this rule and act accordingly.

As to the "1912 rule", the situation is that prior to July 1, 1912, when a father gave up his Italian citizenship by becoming a citizen of another country, he did so for himself, his Italy-born minor children, and also for his children who were not born in Italy. After that date, only the Italy-born children are affected by their father's renunciation. It seems that not all consulates have been diligent in enforcing this interpretation of the law; however New York, San Francisco, and Chicago are known to do so.

[lanycla]

Carmine-

Thanks for the clarification. I knew I may not be eligible on my father's side of the family, which is why I am looking at my mother's side. While I still believe that my maternal GGrandparents never became citizens, I would still be eligible if they naturalized after 7/1/1912, as my grandfather was born in NYC.

I just have to begin gathering the recors of "no record" for my GGrandfather Giavanni Carucci and long with their italian birth records and marriage license. All I have to say is I should have done this years ago!

Lisa

[lanycla]

Hi Everyone-

I will be going to Caggiano Italy in May to visit the hometown of my grandparents. I am looking for their birth and mariage records. I know their birthdates and mariiage dates. I searched extensively on the internet and have had no luck. Where do I go in Caggiano to research in person?

Thanks

[PippoM]

You can go to to the "Ufficio di Stato Civile"
at the Town Hall of the Commune of Caggiano
VIALE GIOVANNI PALATUCCI, n. 4

You might want to write in advance to
demografici.caggiano@asmepec.it.
to tell them when you're going there and get a date