I was told to give up!
Re: I was told to give up!
right but the soundex seems like it gives more specific naturalization info. Like where it happened, witnesses etc. This according to the book"They became Americans."
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DebiHarbuck
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Re: I was told to give up!
The Soundex cards for the census will not have more information than the census itself. They are abstracts made directly from the census pages.
Perhaps that passage in the book is referring to the Soundex cards for the Naturalization records? If so, be aware they are not the same cards.
Perhaps that passage in the book is referring to the Soundex cards for the Naturalization records? If so, be aware they are not the same cards.
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata
Re: I was told to give up!
you are likely correct, I guess I didn't realize they had different types of soundex cards. So is it safe to say that if the NARA found nothing for my relative the first time pertaining to naturalization they would have cross-referenced the soundex cards in the process? It makes sense to me.
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DebiHarbuck
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Re: I was told to give up!
'Soundex' is the name of an coding system that is used to group names that sound the same. Many US records have been indexed with that system. (I think if you turn to page 143-ish in your book, there is a description and an explanation of how it works.)
Again, the cards are nothing more than information extracted from the files on hand. Of course, as with any indexing system, records do get skipped...so a search of Soundex cards is not infallible..and when you cannot find what ought to be, where it ought to be, you have to go to the source records.
That said, if NARA sent you a letter saying they found no record, I'd bet they most likely don't have one. However, that doesn't mean one doesn't exist somewhere...so many Naturalizations just aren't included in NARA's holdings.
Again, the cards are nothing more than information extracted from the files on hand. Of course, as with any indexing system, records do get skipped...so a search of Soundex cards is not infallible..and when you cannot find what ought to be, where it ought to be, you have to go to the source records.
That said, if NARA sent you a letter saying they found no record, I'd bet they most likely don't have one. However, that doesn't mean one doesn't exist somewhere...so many Naturalizations just aren't included in NARA's holdings.
Roccanova/Magistra/Rubertone/Paduano of Craco, Matera, Basilicata AND Latorraca/Cassino/Petrocelli/Peluso of Saponara di Grumento (now Grumento Nova) & Moliterno, Potenza, Basilicata
Re: I was told to give up!
yeah that was just one of the many that said "no records found." The book does have some good search tips. If I turn something up I'll definitely be letting everyone here know. Have you ever heard of someone convincing the consulate that although the census says "na" no record exists to support that claim and them accepting your paperwork? I feel like a well worded letter in Italian with a few historical law facts and an error of dates on a later census may help my case if I keep turning up with nothing.
Re: I was told to give up!
Did Italy issue travel documents to immigrants before they left? If so could I contact the comune where he resided and ask them to furnish them? Seeing as they would be ancient I'm not holding my breath. I'm trying to determine if my relative came to the states a time before he showed up on the census and arrival records.
Re: I was told to give up!
I thought the immigrant I was researching lied on the Census too --mainly because I received incorrect information from USCIS. USCIS sent me the "No record found letter" with an official seal. However, I later discovered, through a distant relative who had done earlier research, a Certificate number. I then sent the new information with the Certificate number to USCIS and sure enough, he WAS most definitely naturalized.
I think that if I had tried to tell the Consulate that he was never naturalized the Consulate would have had the means to locate the proof that I almost missed.
I think that if I had tried to tell the Consulate that he was never naturalized the Consulate would have had the means to locate the proof that I almost missed.
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johnnyonthespot
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Re: I was told to give up!
It is a point worth repeating: just because USCIS (or other agency) says no records were found, that does not mean that no records exist. Ask the same question a second time, and you may very well get a different answer.jennabet wrote:I thought the immigrant I was researching lied on the Census too --mainly because I received incorrect information from USCIS. USCIS sent me the "No record found letter" with an official seal. However, I later discovered, through a distant relative who had done earlier research, a Certificate number. I then sent the new information with the Certificate number to USCIS and sure enough, he WAS most definitely naturalized.
I think that if I had tried to tell the Consulate that he was never naturalized the Consulate would have had the means to locate the proof that I almost missed.
Read about my own experience with one ancestor in this thread: http://italiangenealogy.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=16452/
Carmine
My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me!
My hobby is finding things. Having found most of my own, I am happy to help others find theirs. PM me!
Re: I was told to give up!
. . .a difficult situation. Italian consulates are, more and more, requesting census records (despite their anecdotal nature) to support a contention of non-naturalization. There is a reason for this.
Records were not kept very well during the early part of the 20th century, and if a child received derivative naturalization through a parent, this information was often difficult to find. Because a naturalized child did not receive naturalization papers in his own name, he may not have realized that he too was naturalized, so you should not take your great uncle's statement as fact. Often (but, of course, not always) if one sibling in a household naturalized, the others naturalized as well.
I'm not saying that your grandfather definitely naturalized, but you should be open to the possibility. I do agree that census records, which rely on statements made to the census taker, are often inaccurate. But Francesco's statement in 1927 may also be inaccurate. Our ancestors knew very little about citizenship law.
Do make another attempt to obtain records. If a second try results in "no records found," you will be in a better position to prove your case.
Records were not kept very well during the early part of the 20th century, and if a child received derivative naturalization through a parent, this information was often difficult to find. Because a naturalized child did not receive naturalization papers in his own name, he may not have realized that he too was naturalized, so you should not take your great uncle's statement as fact. Often (but, of course, not always) if one sibling in a household naturalized, the others naturalized as well.
I'm not saying that your grandfather definitely naturalized, but you should be open to the possibility. I do agree that census records, which rely on statements made to the census taker, are often inaccurate. But Francesco's statement in 1927 may also be inaccurate. Our ancestors knew very little about citizenship law.
Do make another attempt to obtain records. If a second try results in "no records found," you will be in a better position to prove your case.
