Lo PINTO, GRASSI, & VIGNOLINI Bisnonni ?

[KathyLPV]

Hi, I've been searching these 3 bisnonni for decades. I have little info, no DOB or DOD's, only guestimates & places of birth for 2! Any help finding these elusive fellas would be greatly Appreciated!

1. Francesco Lo PINTO - b ca 1843, (where?), IT, - d ca 1928, NYC, US (Immigrated 1900 on EMS)
+ m Teresa FICANO b 14 Nov 1848, Bagheria, Sicily, IT, d 31 Dec 1941, Bagheria
* Francesco was a Major in the Beraglieri. Participated in the Unification of Italy & the breach of Porta Pia, Rome.
(I have a document of a commendation medal given him 1870, & photo of him with his regiment.)
2.Ferdinando GRASSI,  b ca. 1845, Naples, IT, d ? (pre 1904), Naples, IT
+ m  Emilia PACILEO, b 28 Nov 1846 Naples (?), IT - d 24 Dec 1922, New York, USA; married ca 1870, Naples, IT
* had 23 children; 11 survived to 1900s; 2 stated in Naples IT, 9 immigrated to USA; Emilia Immigrated to US 1904 as a widow)
3. Rafaelle VIGNOLINI, b ? Prato(?), IT - d ? - Prato, Toscana, IT
+ m Emilia BINI - b ?, (where ?), IT - d ?, Prato, Toscana, IT
* had 3 children - the eldest son (name UNK), b ?, Prato, Toscana, IT - d 1917, in WWI (in IT ?)
& Armida, b ? Prato,Toscana, IT - d ? (Prato ?), IT - She became a religious sister in IT (in 1918: "Civile di Perugia")
& Alberto, 6 Aug 1879, Prato, Toscana, IT - d Apr 1964, NJ USA; Immigrated to USA ca. 1918.
(+ m Artimisia PALLAZZI [MAZZANTI] b -30 Aug 1887, Tompia, Pessaro., Italy, d. 1966, NJ; Immigrated 1920 after her first husband, Primo MAZZANTI died in WWI)

Can anyone help me here? I understand that any DOB pre 1860 can't be found? Is that True? Wouldn't their DOB etc, be on a Marriage Certificate? or Death Certificate???

[suanj]

2.Ferdinando GRASSI, b ca. 1845, Naples, IT, d ? (pre 1904), Naples, IT
+ m Emilia PACILEO, b 28 Nov 1846 Naples (?), IT - d 24 Dec 1922, New York, USA; married ca 1870, Naples, IT
* had 23 children; 11 survived to 1900s; 2 stated in Naples IT, 9 immigrated to USA; Emilia Immigrated to US 1904 as a widow)

Hi,
Emilia Luisa Angela Francesca Felice Geltrude PACILEO was born in Naples ( Montecalvario) on 26 oct 1846, daughter of Francesco Pacileo 30 old, lawyer, and Raffaela Verdoliva 30 old; married in Montecalvario-Naples at Ferdinando Grassi on 14 feb 1870
Emilia birth act:
pag 1 http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0
pag 2 http://www.antenati.san.beniculturali.i ... ewsIndex=0

suanj

[pink67]

3. Rafaelle VIGNOLINI, b ? Prato(?), IT - d ? - Prato, Toscana, IT
+ m Emilia BINI - b ?, (where ?), IT - d ?, Prato, Toscana, IT
* had 3 children - the eldest son (name UNK), b ?, Prato, Toscana, IT - d 1917, in WWI (in IT ?)
& Armida, b ? Prato,Toscana, IT - d ? (Prato ?), IT - She became a religious sister in IT (in 1918: "Civile di Perugia")
& Alberto, 6 Aug 1879, Prato, Toscana, IT - d Apr 1964, NJ USA; Immigrated to USA ca. 1918.
(+ m Artimisia PALLAZZI [MAZZANTI] b -30 Aug 1887, Tompia, Pessaro., Italy, d. 1966, NJ; Immigrated 1920 after her first husband, Primo MAZZANTI died in WWI)

Hi,

most likely the correct first name for Alberto was Umberto, he was in NY (Manhattan) on 1915, this is the 1915 New York State Census from Ancestry.com:

http://postimg.org/image/6s7u22ctf/

Laura

[Tessa78]

Hi, I've been searching these 3 bisnonni for decades. I have little info, no DOB or DOD's, only guestimates & places of birth for 2! Any help finding these elusive fellas would be greatly Appreciated!

1. Francesco Lo PINTO - b ca 1843, (where?), IT, - d ca 1928, NYC, US (Immigrated 1900 on EMS)
+ m Teresa FICANO b 14 Nov 1848, Bagheria, Sicily, IT, d 31 Dec 1941, Bagheria
* Francesco was a Major in the Beraglieri. Participated in the Unification of Italy & the breach of Porta Pia, Rome.
(I have a document of a commendation medal given him 1870, & photo of him with his regiment.)

Can anyone help me here? I understand that any DOB pre 1860 can't be found? Is that True? Wouldn't their DOB etc, be on a Marriage Certificate? or Death Certificate???

POSSIBLE death record for Francesco Lo Pinto in Manhattan in 1926, age 82, which would be about right...

LoPinto Frank 82 y Mar 22 1926 Cert#9119 Manhattan

You can request this death record. It may have his place of birth listed
Here is the link to order the record...
http://www.nyc.gov/dorforms/deathcert.jsp

T.

[KathyLPV]

- I am Thoroughly AMAZED! - the Same Day & 1 Day later ... results!!! BROViSIMO!
To: suanj, Thanks, fascinating to see the actual doc. First indication for Francesco I've had since I began in 1997! I found this on the LDS family search site, in text only, tried looking for it , but the've messed up my user name / password, so I can't get in to see much! . . . Mille Grazie, Gracias, Merci, Danke, THANK you!

To: "T." Thanks for the link, but I'm only a short ride from NYC, so I'll go there again. I've gone to the NYC Municipal Archives since 1997 & looked up every year 1926 - 1928 for the Bronx, last Census 1920, & Manhattan, & Brooklyn & found nada! Too, In the US he lost "Francesco" & called himself "Frank" - not making it easy. The age, date, & year are possible ... but I've found a dozen & more "Francesco Lo PINTO's, none him. It's why I decided to try here. Next Step, is to write a researcher I know in IT to find his DOB, from his marriage to Teresa. (Then to Raffaelo V. my hubby's side.) I should've mentioned his name change. Sorry & Thanks for the effort. Peace.

[KathyLPV]

Larua,
I'm sorry, but I'm not looking for anyone in the US, I have those. I'm looking for GreatGrandfathers, (all born & 2 died in Italy, only 1 died here) not Grandfathers!
And that is definitely not my husband's grandfather. He didn't come to the US till 1917-1918, just after WWI. He saw his brother killed, & just up & left IT. Second, his name actually was Alberto, not Umberto, We know all about Alberto. I have his 1930 census, NJ, & he is still written in as "Alberto" & he always went by that name. Too, I have a great uncle Umberto - they are different names, Alberto is Albert, Umberto is Humbert.
This is why I don't like Ancestry, they don't have a way to give your exact, specific data! They give you a gazillion names, usually none even come close to who you're searching.

[pink67]

Hi Kathy,

if this WW1 Draft registration Card is correct for Albert Vignolini then also the 1915 NY census is correct because address is exactly the same, 252 West 28 NY and occupation cook is the same...

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/T ... :258541841

Laura

[KathyLPV]

WOW. That could be him, he was a cook, & WWI Draft card address is the same. But he was born in 1879, on his USA Marriage Certificate! (The Catholic Church requires the actual Baptismal records, etc. so, that date couldn't be wrong. But then, I have ages given by other's on Census' aren't 10 years older for the next!) & on 1930 Census he says he came in 1920 ?
However, IF this so, it is yet another "untruth" discovered. He said he came in 1918, after the war. Shows to go ya, you can't even believe info on "official" documents!

[pink67]

On the 1915 NY census Alberto/Umberto stated he was in the U.S. since 5 years...

Laura

[KathyLPV]

Since he fudged his age, it's probably inaccurate. I don't know of any other VIGNOLINI's that came here. To add to that, he's truly a WAP, he actually came over as one of the ship's cooks, then jumped ship when they arrived at the NYC port! So, I don't buy him saying he came in 1910, he was protecting himself.
My husband's aunt actually had his ship papers, but was too embarrassed to keep them with all her other papers. So, that I have his actual Marriage license, and Church marriage, etc., I don't have this, yet. I told her, that for me, he had great courage to do that. He risked everything to stay here & I can see him lying about his entry. He never did become a citizen because of that. Once more, just because something is on a document, doesn't mean it's the truth!

[pink67]

Maybe you should try to obtain this document:

from Ancestry.com:

U.S., Index to Alien Case Files at the National Archives at Kansas City, 1944–2003

Name: Alberto Vignolini
Birth Date: 6 Aug 1879
Country of Origin: Italy
Registration number: 1894438

About U.S., Index to Alien Case Files at the National Archives at Kansas City, 1944–2003
If your ancestor was an alien in the U.S. in or after 1940, one record you will want to look for is an alien case file (A-File). This database contains an index to A-Files created between 1944 and 2003 for immigrants who were born before 1909.
What’s in an A-File?
The content of A-Files will vary depending on the immigrant and his or her interactions with the INS. Here are a few records that you might find in an A-File:
visas
AR-2 form (alien registration)
petitions and affidavits
correspondence
photographs
identification documents
What Is an A-File?
One provision of the Alien Registration Act of 1940 (also known as the Smith Act) required aliens aged 14 and older living in or entering the United States to register and be fingerprinted. The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS)—now the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS)—drew up the Alien Registration form AR-2 to register aliens beginning in 1940. AR-2 forms asked for a number of valuable family history details:
name (and any aliases used)
residence
date and place of birth
country of citizenship
marital status
physical description
most recent arrival in the U.S. (port, date, and ship)
occupation
employer
U.S. naturalization status
whether the alien had immediate family in the U.S.
statement of alien’s military service
Each form also included an A-number, which was later used to establish Alien Registration Files, or A-Files. A-Files typically (but not always) include the alien’s AR-2 form, as well as all other documentation created through the immigration and citizenship processes prior to naturalization. If the immigrant naturalized prior to 1 April 1956, the contents of the A-File were moved to a new Certificate File, or C-File, eliminating the A-File. This practice ceased on 1 April 1956, and from then on, all of the records remained in the A-File, regardless of whether the immigrant eventually naturalized. So, if an immigrant did not naturalize prior to the 1 April 1956 date, or never naturalized, their records would still be found in his or her A-File.
In 2010, the USCIS began transferring records of immigrants who were born more than 100 years ago to the National Archives for retention. This database contains an index to A-Files created between 1944 and 2003, for immigrants who were born before 1909. The files themselves are now held at the National Archives Regional Archive at Kansas City, Missouri, though immigrants mentioned in them come from around the United States. Note: Files from the Reno, Nevada; San Francisco, California; Honolulu, Hawaii; and Guam districts of the Immigration and Naturalization Service were transferred to the National Archives Regional Archive in San Bruno, California, and are currently not included in this index.
Ordering Your Ancestor’s A-File
The original case files are located at the National Archives at Kansas City. Please make sure to include the Alien Registration Number and the individual's complete name when requesting a copy of a file. The National Archives will accept requests by e-mail, postal mail, or fax.
E-mail: Afiles.KansasCity@nara.gov
Postal mail:
National Archives at Kansas City
Attn: A-Files Request
400 W. Pershing Rd.
Kansas City, MO 64108
Fax: (816) 268–8038

Reagarding his brother who died during WW1, this is the page of the tuscany soldiers with the same lastaname who died in the WW1:

http://www.cadutigrandeguerra.it/Albo_O ... 23/843.jpg

Laura

[KathyLPV]

Thanks Laura, none of the VIGNOLINI'S listed have the right father's name (di Raffaele) so I don't know what to make of it. Perhaps his brother wasn't in the military, but just another casualty of war, just a citizen? Who knows. One of these days I'll get someone in IT to check out the Family for this info. (Or better yet, go myself? ... dream on...)

As to sending for forms of "aliens serving in WWI or WWII" that doesn't apply. Alberto never served here or in IT, & my grandfather was a US citizen, when he served in the IT Army in WWI, thus the need for "Repatriation" in 1919.