1948 Case with Luigi Paiano

[jennabet]

thank you both Jennabet and Mler for the detailed explanation...

it seems more complicated to do it in the way that Mler explains, then it would be easier to request it in the Italian consulate of my residency country.

However, I wonder if according to the Jennabet explanation, the mentioned residency has to be a foreign third country residency for work/study/family reunion, etc.? (that is very complicated just to have it for requesting the passport) or already having the official court document stating that you are Italian citizen would be requested an Italian citizen residence, I mean a residence as normal Italian citizen? and having the residence it would proceed to request the passport and the ID.....

An Italian citizen does not need a reason, for example work/study/family reunion, to establish residency. If you are traveling as a tourist in Italy but you're an Italian citizen and you are still here after three months, you must establish residency, the same as all other citizens. You would do that by registering at your commune by giving them the address where you are permanently residing. Within two weeks or so, the commune will send someone around to verify that you live at that address. After that, you can go to your local questura (police station) and apply for your passport as long as you have the proper documents namely a carta d'identita (identity card) issued to you by the commune. If you don't plan on staying in Italy longer than three months you should apply for your passport at the consulate that has jurisdiction for the place where you live outside of Italy.

[JuanLucke]

Thank you mler and Jennabet, I have now a better idea of the situation.

About why postponing obtaining the passport until travel to Italy?

There is not a particular reason, specially taking in consideration that I am barely in the middle of my citizenship process.

My curiosity came up because by the average time that my documents could be ready to request the passport it could match the vacations period, it is a small possibility for that to happen, so, the idea was to use vacations going Italy to know the place where my ancestors lived and get advantage to request and get the passport and ID in the comune where I would be registered. But this is not strictly necessary or a hurry for me.

Obviously if everything is ready before the vacations period I would do it in my local consulate and whether it is not possible to do it directly in Italy, I would only travel there for vacations and later to request passport in my local consulate, no problem with that!

I only wondered if it was possible, besides, there is not guarantee that date will match, actually many things can happen till end of the process.

I just like to be informed and to know my options with time ahead.

I understood your explanation and now I have a clearer picture about it. (in my local consulate will be...!)

Thanks again.

[bspaggs]

Hello all, thank you so much for those who took the time to answer my question regarding translating fees. We did decide to go with Teresa and it was worth it for us knowing that she is so experienced with Luigi's cases.

I now have a second question that is puzzling me. Two of my sisters changed their names when they got married, and rather than dropping their maiden names they dropped their middle names and now use their maiden names as middle names. As there are no official name change documents (they just changed it with their marriage certificates), Luigi says this could be problematic and that they should enter the trial under their maiden names instead. He said that under Italian law, their names in Italy would be their maiden names anyway. Does anyone know anything about this? Obviously I trust that Luigi knows what he's talking about, but I'm mainly interested in knowing whether other people have gone by their maiden names to enter the trial - do you then use your marriage certificate to get citizenship for your spouses, and does your name change on the Italian passport then? We are in the process of re-signing (and getting apostilles for) the new power of attorneys now, and I'm just curious what other's experiences have been.

Thanks everyone!

[jennabet]

In Italy, women keep forever the sur name of their father's family which they were given at birth. Married womens' names do not change at marriage, which in my opinion is a ridiculous custom anyway because while the man you married IS the father of your children, he is NOT your father. In Italy, there are two names on every mailbox. The family name of the wife and the family name of her husband.

You cannot apply for Italian citizenship using any name other than the name you were given at birth. Your passport will also be issued in that given name. If you eventually live in Italy, you must use only your given name and use a signature that is exactly as the name appears on your birth certificate. After you are recognized, you can sponsor your husband for naturalization also using the name you were given at birth. Remember, the man you are sponsoring is NOT your father.

[bspaggs]

Thank you jennabet! That makes sense - it's the same in many Latin American countries. Unfortunately we haven't caught up over here, and it sometimes leads to problems - I, for instance, don't have the same last name as my son, who has his father's name. I like how in Mexico kids get two surnames: their mother's and their father's!

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

[jennabet]

No problem. Glad to help.

[mler]

My Italian passport was issued in the name that appears on my birth certificate. However, on page five, my husband's surname is listed. This is helpful because, when traveling to Italy, all my identifying documents with the exception of my Italian passport, are in my married name.

As jennebet notes, keeping the "maiden" name is typical in Italy, but in both Italy and in the US, women take the name of a male (father in Italy, husband in the US). I like the combination name idea, although ultimately that would become rather cumbersome, particularly when I think of my maiden name.

[bspaggs]

Unfortunately when we took the POA with my sisters' maiden names on it to the notary we were told that they could not notarize a document with names that are not the same as my sisters' current identification. So we are left moving forward with the trial under their new names - Luigi was only worried about this due to the fact that two of my sisters dropped their middle names to retain their maiden names as middle names. He requested proof of the name change since it's different than simply changing a surname. Has anyone had experience with this? Is there any way to document a name change that is not a simple taking of a husband's name?

[jennabet]

It makes perfect sense that a notary could not put his seal on that kind of document but it is easy in the US to use whatever name you prefer because of course, now that you're married, you became a different person. If you get divorced, you become a different person again. In between you can replace names with initials, add a nick name, get a hyphenated name, or be as creative as you want with your signature. And they wonder why they have so much identify theft in the USA. I don't know how your sisters can fix their name problems other than changing their names back to the way they were before marriage, if it's even possible to do without a divorce. I agree with Luigi that the court is going to have a problem with those creative new names without a good reason given for the "creativity". By the way, I've been in Italy almost 20 years and recently had to use the services of an Italian notary, who basically ridiculed the entire US system and said the Italian system is better. For sure, I think it's more secure.

[mler]

I think the internet and the careless proliferation of data is more responsible for identity theft than are name issues, but it's certainly a problem when names do not conform to documents.

In the US, if a woman takes her husband's surname as her own, this change is reported to Social Security. Perhaps your sisters might try changing their names with Social Security in a manner that conforms to the names they are using. A visit to your SS office will confirm if this is feasible, but since many married women choose surname hypenations, this would not be an unusual request. If so, a combination of birth certificate, marriage certificate and SS identification and paperwork may be sufficient.

It may also be a good idea to update their drivers' licenses.

[bspaggs]

They do have updated drivers' licenses, passports, and ss cards with their new names, so I guess that's not the issue. The issue is proving that they are actually the same people, just with different names. I sent Luigi a copy of my sisters pre- and post-marriage passports that clearly show this is the same person with a different name; hopefully that will help! I might also get a notary to examine their pre- and post-marriage documents and swear and attest that they are the same people.

And jennabet the truth is that in the U.S. you can change your name whenever you want, to whatever you want, as many times as you want! Which can definitely create problems, but Americans tend to value the freedom to do/be whatever they want even over sensible choices sometimes. (Although I will say that I think my sisters' attachment to our father's surname - not wanting to lose it just because they got married - seems like a good reason to be creative to me.)

Thanks to you both and hopefully the courts will be satisfied with our extra documentation!

[jennabet]

And jennabet the truth is that in the U.S. you can change your name whenever you want, to whatever you want, as many times as you want! Which can definitely create problems, but Americans tend to value the freedom to do/be whatever they want even over sensible choices sometimes.

Indeed and it has become perverse over the last eight years because "sensible" is no longer correct. "Nonsensical", just the opposite, is what they think is correct. It even applies to some of the states that say they have the right not to comply with SENSIBLE Federal Immigration laws and that the Feds are not allowed to defund them for non compliance. However, those same states were more than happy to see other states defunded if they failed to comply with the previous administration's NONSENSIBLE bathroom laws.

But I do hope the Italian court can make some sense of your documents.

[r21679]

Hi All, I just started the process with Mr. Paiano. I'm almost finished with gathering the documents needed for his first analysis - to see whether my family will have a case. I've been able to find the naturalization certificate for my Italian-born GGF through NARA which confirms that he naturalized in 1923 before my GF was born. I know that my GGM did not naturalize until after my GF was born. However, NARA was unable to find her naturalization certificate, and I am planning to try USCIS. I have not begun a search with USCIS yet as it's my understanding they can only issue photocopies and not certified copies of naturalization certificates. I assume that someone has already experienced this? Is this going to be an issue? If so, is there a way around it? Thanks in advance for your help.

[zamanka]

The same happened to our case in January. Who was your judge?

Well, as expected my judge has determined there should be a second hearing and that it should take place at the end of November. I understand that the judge just quickly checked the documentation at the first hearing, which I believe is normal course for his determination of these matters.

I was prepared for this particular judge ordering a second hearing (apparently he always does so) and I guessed it would likely be towards the end of the year before a second hearing was assigned. If I get the whole process wrapped up in 18 months from start to finish I will be very lucky I guess, but probably more like two years.

[Edienlson]

Hi All

The hearing of my case was in January 2017 and so far (Jun 1st) Judge Daniela Bianchini did not publish the sentence. Long time waiting. Anyone in the same situation?

Edinelson