Would an elementary school have records?

[brogie62]

Here the father is Angelo Maria-Ippolito Giannini and the Mother Maria Petronella de Troia. It is the only birth of an Alessandro Giannini I could find there in 1870 +/- 2 years so it is probably it. The date is 7 Nov 1869 and they resided at Strada Lurlo(?). Can't quite make it out.

[brogie62]

Here is Maria Rosaria's birth (#190):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Born 2 Oct 1874, as you said.
Father: Alfonso, son the the late Constanzo
Mather: Giovaana Lombardi, daughter of the late Urbano
Residence: Strada l'Erazio(?)

[erudita74]

Father's first name- COSTANZO

Strada l'Erario

still exists in the town

[mmogno]

Marriage of Alessandro Matteo Giannini and Maria Rosaria Loiacono

Richiesta pubblicazioni, 20.03.1898 a Troia, #11
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Matrimonio, 25.04.1898 a Troia, #17
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Processetti. Copertina
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Pubblicazioni. Copertina
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

1a pubblicazione
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

2a pubblicazione
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Certificato di avvenute pubblicazioni
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Estratto di nascita di Alessandro Matteo Giannini, di Angelo Maria Ippolito Giannini (fu Mattia) e Maria Petronilla de Troia, nato a Troia in via Zurlo, il 05.11.1869, #192
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

Estratto di nascita di Maria Rosaria Loiacono, di Alfonso Loiacono (fu Costanzo) e Giovanna Lombardi (fu Urbano), nata a Troia in strada l'Erario, il 02.10.1874, #190
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=197401

[KarenFLG]

Thank you all for the replies - I am still trying to go through them. Thank you mmogno for figuring out Zurlo. I would have never guessed!

I have an odd question. I have found 3 relatives that have birth years in Italy that are one year prior to what they were in the U.S. Their manifests and tombstones are one year later than the birth records in Italy. My GM said she was born in 1904 and the birth record from Troia shows clearly it was 1903. My mom is perplexed to think her mother was born a year earlier than what she has always known it to be! Have you heard of this and is there any explanation you can offer? Thank you.

[erudita74]

Karen-

I don’t think your question is odd, as I have a similar situation concerning my maternal grandfather. He came to the U.S. in October of 1900 and, according to his passenger list, was age 17 at the time. His birthday had been the previous July. His U.S. naturalization record, and his WWI draft registration card, both give his year of birth as 1884. His Italian birth record, which I secured years ago from the microfilmed records for his Sicilian town, has the correct month and day, but is dated a year earlier, or 1883. My mother argued with me about this, until the day she died. Her family had even put 1884, as his year of birth on his tombstone, when he died in 1932.

I know that, although my grandfather did not need a passport to enter the U.S. at the time he immigrated, he did need a passport to leave Italy and, to be issued one, he had to bring a copy of his birth certificate to the closest police headquarters. Also, while it may be true that many southern Italians and Sicilians were illiterate, and relied more on oral tradition, rather than on legal documents, to establish the facts of their own lives, my grandfather was literate. He even studied English for several years, once he arrived in the U.S, and before he naturalized, and should have realized the discrepancy on his U.S. documents.

My late mother-in-law always told me that her southern Italian mother claimed that Italians had a different way of calculating age. She claimed that, when a baby was born, he/she was already a year old. Well, even if age was calculated from the time of conception, rather than from the actual date of birth, I think my grandfather’s year of birth would not be correct. This concept has never sat right with me, and I honestly don’t know if it’s true, as I’m not a native Italian, nor do I live in Italy.

I do know that, in Italy, there is such a thing as compiti with regards to age, as we’ve seen the word compiti in some Italian marriage documents, written after the age of the groom or the bride. So if the age given was “venti compiti,” that person had already had his/her 20th birthday, or had completed his/her 20th year of life, entered into his/her 21st year of life, but had not yet had his/her 21st birthday.

Anyway, I think you’ve raised a good question, and I hope that some of the native Italians on the forum will provide us with some insight concerning this subject.

Erudita

[KarenFLG]

Erudita,

Thank you so much for sharing the details on your family having a similar situation. Thank you for letting me know about "venti compiti." I did not know this.

I talked to my mother and she remembers that her mother (my grandmother) did say something about the birthdate in Italy being different but she didn’t know the specifics. Your reply was very helpful for both of us.

I still wonder why my grandmother used the later birth year (1904) but her sister who immigrated at the exact same time did not. They both immigrated in March 1920. They were born two years apart according to the Italian records (October 1903 and October 1901).

It will be interesting to see if anyone else on the forum has additional insight. I’m sure we are not alone!

Thank you again, Karen