I'm a bit confused about some of the information about required documents in this thread because it contradicts the information on the website for my local Italian Consulate in San Francisco, which specifies that in the event that the Italian ascendant never naturalized, a certificate of no record from the USCIS and a copy of the corresponding census are required, but it doesn't say anything about getting a certificate of no record from the NARA, or a certificate of no record from each county where the Italian ascendant lived.
Is the information in this thread referring to a different consulate where the rules are different? Or have the rules changed since this thread was started back in 2011?
Proving No Record of Naturalization
Re: Proving No Record of Naturalization
To jump on this thread.
I am looking to prove line from GGF did not naturalized before GM was born in 1922 in USA. 1930 & 1940 census have PA for his status. Which I believe means first papers. Not AL or NA.
I have not found naturalization paperwork in the county he lived and worked in. If I can get the no records letter. Will I have issues with PA on the census?
I am looking to prove line from GGF did not naturalized before GM was born in 1922 in USA. 1930 & 1940 census have PA for his status. Which I believe means first papers. Not AL or NA.
I have not found naturalization paperwork in the county he lived and worked in. If I can get the no records letter. Will I have issues with PA on the census?
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Ameritalia
- Newbie
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- Joined: 01 May 2013, 02:13
Re: Proving No Record of Naturalization
Go to http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis, the US Citizenship and Immigration Services is the only government agency authorized to state whether or not an immigrant naturalized.
I sent a letter to: Department of Himeland Security, Record Services Branch MS 2204, 1200 First Street NE, 2nd Flr, Room 260, Washington, DC
This agency was very quick to reply with my letter of non naturalization. Don’t forget to have document Apostilled.
I sent a letter to: Department of Himeland Security, Record Services Branch MS 2204, 1200 First Street NE, 2nd Flr, Room 260, Washington, DC
This agency was very quick to reply with my letter of non naturalization. Don’t forget to have document Apostilled.
Re: Proving No Record of Naturalization
Here is what I found in the FAQ section of this website: http://www.myitaliancitizenship.com/?co ... aq.html#32
Q. What does "renouncing one's right to Italian citizenship" mean?
A. Native-born Italian citizens renounce their right to Italian citizenship when they become naturalized citizens of a foreign country. Persons born outside Italy who qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis renounce their right to Italian citizenship only by doing so explicitly in an Italian embassy or consulate. (ICGS has never encountered a situation in which the latter occurred.)
Q. My Italian parent/grandparent/great grandparent was born in Italy, but was naturalized along with his or her parents as a minor. Does it still count as "renouncing one's right to Italian citizenship" if the child was too young to make a conscious choice?
A. Yes. If your parent/grandparent/great grandparent was naturalized as a minor, he or she effectively renounced his or her right to Italian citizenship. This means that your ancestor was unable to pass Italian citizenship jure sanguinis to his or her children as an adult. Unfortunately, no exceptions are made in these cases.
This leads me to believe that me to believe that even if your great grandfather in my case has a Petition for naturalization dated a year after my grandmother was born in 1922, he renounced his citizenship for my grandmother and my father. Is that right? I'm still unclear. If the Italian Consulate requires this document doesn't that disqualify you for birthright citizenship?
Q. What does "renouncing one's right to Italian citizenship" mean?
A. Native-born Italian citizens renounce their right to Italian citizenship when they become naturalized citizens of a foreign country. Persons born outside Italy who qualify for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis renounce their right to Italian citizenship only by doing so explicitly in an Italian embassy or consulate. (ICGS has never encountered a situation in which the latter occurred.)
Q. My Italian parent/grandparent/great grandparent was born in Italy, but was naturalized along with his or her parents as a minor. Does it still count as "renouncing one's right to Italian citizenship" if the child was too young to make a conscious choice?
A. Yes. If your parent/grandparent/great grandparent was naturalized as a minor, he or she effectively renounced his or her right to Italian citizenship. This means that your ancestor was unable to pass Italian citizenship jure sanguinis to his or her children as an adult. Unfortunately, no exceptions are made in these cases.
This leads me to believe that me to believe that even if your great grandfather in my case has a Petition for naturalization dated a year after my grandmother was born in 1922, he renounced his citizenship for my grandmother and my father. Is that right? I'm still unclear. If the Italian Consulate requires this document doesn't that disqualify you for birthright citizenship?
Re: Proving No Record of Naturalization
It’s important to clarify that the terminology being used is incorrect. Naturalization is NOT renunciation of Italian citizenship regardless of what is stated on the naturalization documents. Renunciation can only take place at an Italian consulate or comune. However, naturalization DOES result in the loss of Italian citizenship (before 1992, of course) for the person who naturalized AND:
- for all children born after that naturalization
- for minor children who were naturalized with the parent (those who did not receive foreign (US) citizenship jus soli.
Those are just the basic rules. However, depending on the year the naturalization took place, you will find various scenarios that don’t exactly correspond.
In any case, given your example, the gm born in 1922 loses Italian citizenship if she were born in Italy and retains Italian citizenship if she were born in the US. If born in the US, she did not naturalize with her father because she was already a US citizen jus soli. No naturalization means no loss of Italian citizenship.
- for all children born after that naturalization
- for minor children who were naturalized with the parent (those who did not receive foreign (US) citizenship jus soli.
Those are just the basic rules. However, depending on the year the naturalization took place, you will find various scenarios that don’t exactly correspond.
In any case, given your example, the gm born in 1922 loses Italian citizenship if she were born in Italy and retains Italian citizenship if she were born in the US. If born in the US, she did not naturalize with her father because she was already a US citizen jus soli. No naturalization means no loss of Italian citizenship.
Re: Proving No Record of Naturalization
I am a newbie attempting to see if I qualify for dual citizenship. I am curious who/how you contact NARA and whoever else you need to contact to prove no naturalization occurred? Any first step advice would be HUGELY appreciated.
-Kelli
-Kelli
