grottola

[EllenCatusco]

can someone tell me what it says after Maddalena Grottola's name. I see it say her age, and where she lives, but after e da I can not make out. Is it her fathers name? This woman is very hard to locate..

[erudita74]

Da lui dichiarante di anni ventisei di professione contadino domiciliato in Marsico nel giorno dodici del mese di agosto anno suddetto alle ore cinque di notte

the first part refers to the declarant, Maddalena's husband-age 26, a peasant

[EllenCatusco]

Giannario Laino is on top, That is her husband, he 26 and father is francesco. But why are they saying again his info after hers? Is that ususal, I have not seen that before.

[bbivona]

Ellen, it appears that the clerk was filling it out incorrectly. If you look forward and back a few images from that one, you can be sure. While sometimes the father and mother could be the same age and the mother could conceivably help the father in his work (so they might theoretically have the same occupation), that's not what is happening here. I went forward about 10 pages and on each one they're putting the same age for each father and mother as well as each with the same occupation, and the occupation always ends in "o" not "a". Contadino, mugnaio, which are masculine. (Exception is #227 for some reason.) The chance of their all being the same age is almost zero. However, going the other way is where you can really prove it. On order #223, the husband, age 54, contadino, declares that the child was born of his wife, age 54, contadino. Obviously with that age, it can't just be coincidence of spouses having the same age. The clerk is, as you noticed, repeating the father's information instead of including the mother's.

[erudita74]

Maddalena=the mother-is age 24 in this record. Her occupation is not given. So the age of 26 and the word contadino with an o refer to the husband, who is the declarant in this record. In some records, you will find that instead of da lui dichiarante, which refers to the declarant, who may be the father, but could also be someone else, you could find the phrase "da esso dichiarante." In some records, the declarant's age and occupation is repeated. In others, it may be just the declarant's age and not his occupation which is repeated. The records are all different. The clerk in the instance of this record did not fill it out incorrectly.
Erudita

[erudita74]

to bivvona-you mention #227 in your reply above-in that record, the declarant, Michele Luisi, the son of deceased Pietro (Luisi), is age 40 but he is NOT the infant's father. The mother's age is given as 25. The father of the infant was "padre ignoto" -or an "unknown father." Since the father of infant was unknown, neither his age nor occupation is given in the record. That's why there are blank spaces after the words anni and professione.

BTW, the mothers' occupations are not given in this particular group of records.

For anyone looking to get a better basic understanding of the format and info in these records, I recommend reading Trafford Cole's book on Italian Records.

[EllenCatusco]

Thanks everyone. I just fine this woman so hard to find. Every document I have found her name on never gives parents names. Thats why I w as looking for a wedding cert. But even that can not be found. I was just hoping the info after her name on this one gave something about her father at least. I will keep searching.

[erudita74]

Ellen
Did you ever search for the 1842 Processetti for the marriage of Maria Raffaela Laino? Her mother was deceased by the time of her Nov marriage. Just wondering if there could be a death record for Maddalena with that group of supporting documents? I've been having issues all day with the antenati website. The images are either not loading at all, or are loading extremely slowly, so I haven't been able to pursue this line of research.
Erudita

[erudita74]

Ellen

index 1840 with death record of Maddalena Grottola. I'm looking for the record now. Father: Antonio and Mother :Angelamaria Milano


Here's the death record for Maddalena: this should be the correct record Aug 1, 1840

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

[EllenCatusco]

Welcome to my world.I can't believe you found anything with her name on it. I see the husband is not the same guy I have. I still can't believe you found something. So I really can't go by that death record. 1840 according to both births of children, she should have been 39.Is that what it says on the Aug 1 record?

[EllenCatusco]

Yes I think you found the right one. OMG thank you. I see it says husband is Laino, which is correct. I can't thank you enough. I was starting to think maybe she not exist.

[erudita74]

The husband on this record is Gianovario Laino. Is that correct? There's another Maddalena Grottola in the index for Aug 30th, but that husband is a Lapolla. That one has parents Michele and Rosa Battista. I can't find a May 11th record in 1840, which is the date on the extracted death record with the marriage processetti for Maria Raffaela. I'll get you the links for that

[erudita74]

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

This extracted copy has her death date of May 11, 1840 but it's incorrect

[EllenCatusco]

Yes Its It Gianovario Laino one. That is her husband. The correct one is the Aug 1 1840. Mother Angelina Milano.

[erudita74]

Well, I'm glad we finally found her parents' names. Had the antenati website not been giving me issues all day, I would have found the record hours ago. Now I am going offline for the rest of the evening, Ellen. Have a good one.

Erudita