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[tbandwen]

Thank you for the marriage record.
Maybe I am missing some thing but I don't find a Giuseppe in any of the Scaravilli family history.
How do you find the info so quickly? I have to know the year of the event and search each document. Very time consuming.
Thanks
Tom

[erudita74]

Tom
I found what I believe is Fortunata's birth record. See link below. Parents' name match what is in her first marriage record.

Then I looked for Pasquale. Found one in 1855 with parents Salvadore and Fortunata and then one in 1861, with the same parents as in Giuseppe's marriage record, BUT, there is a second different surname for the father in that record. Double surnames have always been an issue. When I found some in my husband's ancestry years ago, even the town official, who had sent me some earlier records via email when these weren't online, was baffled. I often think that sometimes a second surname is from an earlier generation, which then skips generations. So, now I can't say if the parents in Giuseppe's marriage belong to your Pasquale. The records in this town are extremely confusing, and I've been doing this kind of Italian research for over 25 years now. I just don't want to give you any misleading info, or have you researching the wrong ancestry going back in time.

I looked for the birth records in the hope that there would be annotations for the marriages on them, but no such luck. Also the antenati website where these records were found is often slow in loading and sometimes you just have to access them at an off hour.

Birth of Fortunata on Oct 7, 1859-consistent with her age of 16 in her 1876 marriage record

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0


Pasquale with father Salvadore-July 20, 1855

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0


Pasquale March 5, 1861=father Antonio; mother Carmela

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

the second double surname for father Antonino doesn’t match

[tbandwen]

Again I am overwhelmed with information. Are you able to just enter a name into a website or do you need the year etc?
I still don't know who the Giuseppe is that you are referring to. I don't see his name in any of the Scaravilli documents.
Some one told me the middle name is there to distinguish between families with the same last name. There are so many of them that it makes sense to me.
Thanks agin
Tom

[erudita74]

Tom
Forget about Giuseppe for now, but the 1859 birth record for Fortunata that I posted above should be the correct one for her. I'm posting the link below again. There is no other birth record for a Fortunata born to the parents in her marriage record.

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

As to Pasquale-I have now been through birth records from 1846 to 1863 and have found 4 of them. There is one born in 1846, but his father is a Calogero and his mother is a Maria Cavallari.

Then there is one born in Feb of 1853-his father is an Antonino but his mother is a Caterina, but again this father has a different second surname. Mother's surname is Scavarilli

Then you have the two Pasquale that I told you about in my other post, including the one with the parents Antonino and Carmela, but again that father's second surname doesn't match. So I'm sorry to have confused you with all this and am quitting this line of research. I was just trying to find marriage annotations on Fortunata and Pasquale's birth records to get you a marriage date for Fortunata and Pasquale. But this line of research is not leading us there.

Erudita

[tbandwen]

I think we are at a dead end and I am OK with that. You have been so very helpful and again many thanks.
Tom

[erudita74]

Tom
I feel bad hearing that you feel you are at a dead end and seem to be walking away from this research. This Italian research is very difficult, especially when double surnames are involved. I don't want to give you any more info, as I know it's just confusing to you. I sent you a private message earlier, which you haven't opened, so if you get a chance, I hope you'll read it.

Also to answer a question you asked me before. There is no easy way to quickly search these records. The antenati site, which seems to only have earlier records for Cesaro`, will probably eventually have a way to search names in Messina Province but, at this time, doesn't. As to the records on family search for Cesaro`-you just have to go through them as best you can. Some years have indices at the end of a given year. A lot don't, so you have to go record by record. It is very time consuming, unfortunately. On familysearch.org, search the town of Cesaro` in the catalog. That's how I came across records for 1866 to 1879 and found the 1876 marriage for Fortunata's first marriage. I really hope you uncover some new info, as that will keep you wanting to come back for more.

Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Erudita

[tylerwood377]

you should take help of any agency who gives translation services .. then you confirm find the meaning of these sentence easily

[erudita74]

I think we are at a dead end and I am OK with that. You have been so very helpful and again many thanks.
Tom

Tom
I hope that now that the holidays are over, you've reconsidered your decision (as you told me you might) and are ready to resume this quest. On the morning before I left to visit family, I found records for all of the children of Fortunata and Calogero, his death record, the marriage record of one of Rosaria's sisters, etc. I will not post links to these records, or any details, until I know that you've come back to the forum. Pasquale is proving to be more elusive, but I haven't given up on him yet.
Erudita

[tbandwen]

Hello Erudita and Happy New Year

Hope your time with your family was good.
My wife's brother pasted away 2 days before Christmas so we struggled with the holidays.
I still want to find out more about my Cesaro families and continue. Please post the latest links you found and we will go from there.
Thanks
Tom

[erudita74]

Tom
Happy New Year to you too, but I'm sorry to hear about your BIL. We did have a nice holiday visit with our children, their wives, inlaws, and our granddaughter.

Here's info from Fortunata's marriage to Calogero. I hope all of the links work.

Marriage of Calogero Lana Saraniti and Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri

Dated August 23, 1876 (record #26)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043496

Groom: Calogero Lana Saraniti, age 23, farmer. Son of deceased Giuseppe (Lana Saraniti) and deceased Maria Orofino

Bride: Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri age 16, cucitrice (seamstress), daughter of Paolo Brasco Spiitalieri and Carmela Scaravilli

Both the groom and bride had been born in Cesaro`; Marriage publications on the 18th and 25th of June

Death of Calogero Lana Saraniti at age 30, vetturale*, he had born in, and was a resident of, Cesaro`, (record #53). He died on June 10, 1883 at 11:30 a.m., in the house at #5 via Sirene

*vetturale was a carrier of goods from place to place using a cart, wheelbarrow, or with pack animals

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

Father: deceased Giuseppe Lana Saraniti (villico/farmer)
Mother: deceased Maria Orofino
Husband of Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri

[erudita74]

Children of Calogero Lana Saraniti and Fortunata Brasco Spitalieri

1. Giuseppe Lana Saraniti,* born Sept 6, 1877 (record #121) in the house at #66 via Stallazzi
Father: Calogero, age 25, (agricoltore/farmer)

Mother: Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri, cucitrice (seamstress)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043496

*I’m assuming he died, but there are no online death records for 1877, 1878, 1879 and 1882. I don’t see him in the 1880 or 1881 indices. Will have to check additional death indices at some point.

2. Maria Lana Saraniti born on July 30, 1879, in house on via Stallazzi (no number on house); record #133
Father: Calogero Lana Saraniti, age 26, (villico/farmer)

Mother: Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri, cucitrice/seamstress

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=2043496

Notation: Maria married at age 21 Salvatore Ceraldi in Cesaro` on Feb 16, 1901-record #12

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

Their daughter, Maria Concetta Ceraldi was born on Dec 2, 1901 in the house at #6 via Ceccarelli

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

3. Carmela Lana Saraniti born on Nov 28, 1881 at 1:10 a.m. (record #182), in the house on via Stallazzi (no number on the house)
Father: Calogero Lana Saraniti was age 27, villico/farmer
Mother: Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri, his wife, living with him

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

Death on July 20, 1883- she died at age 1 year and 4 months (record #73)-in the house at #9 via Sirene; father, Calogero, already deceased

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

4. Rosaria Lana Saraniti born on Dec 14, 1883 in the house at #5 via Rocca (record #202)
Father: deceased Calogero Lana Saraniti
Mother: Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri

download/file.php?id=8560&mode=view

She married Antonino Fontana in Cesaro` June 10, 1903

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

[tbandwen]

Hello Erudita,
I am overwhelmed by the info you sent me. I had Rosaria's birth and marriage but the others are new.
Thank you.
I have used Family search before but not the catalog.
I tried familysearch.org and went into catalog and entered Cesaro as place and Saraniti as surname but it did not show any results. A must be doing something wrong or do I have to join something?
Thanks again

[erudita74]

Hi Tom
I'm very happy that you now have some new info related to your ancestry.

As to your question about FamilySearch and the catalog--I suggest that, if you want to search names and the town of Cesaro`, you use two different options on the website to conduct your search.

If you go to the familysearch.org website, across the top of the page, you have 4 options-Family Tree, Search, Memories, and Indexing. If you click on the option, Search, you get a list of options under that category.. To search for specific names, use the options Family Tree and/or Genealogies. With these two options, you can search the surnames with a town name as well. The problem is that the info you then see, which has been submitted by individuals such as you or me, may or may not be accurate. It then needs to be verified by finding the appropriate records.

Unfortunately, unless some volunteer has undertaken the mission to index your town’s records, you will not find an easy way to search for your ancestors in Cesaro`.

As to searching the catalog for the town of Cesaro`, once you put in the town name and search, you get two initial options. The first is for the census from 1583 to 1816. To the right of each entry, you will see a camera icon which has what appears to be a wrench above it. Those items can only be viewed at a local family history center. Currently they are not viewable online. These are tax census records and are very difficult to decipher. So, if these are ever put online, then have a go at it. But, for now, forget about it.

The next option is Civil Registration-this is what you need. There are two items under that option. The first is for the Tribunal of Catania.

Registri dello stato civile di Camporotondo Etneo (Catania), 1820-1929

On the next screen is highlighted Browse through 434,962 images. Click on that, and you have a choice of two provinces. Pick Messina and you will see that only the town of Cesaro` is there. This is where I found Fortunata's marriage to Calogero and the births of the first two of their children. So this is what you get with this option-
Nati 1866-1879 Pubblicazioni 1867-1879 Matrimoni 1867-1879 Morti 1867-1868

Registri dello stato civile di Cesarò (Messina), 1821-1929-click on this and you get the next screen as follows:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/cat ... %20Library

Now you have three options to search records for the town of Cesaro` in Messina Province. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to search these records. You have to go to each record type and year, see if it has an index, and then go from there. In many instances, there are no indices and you have to go record by record. It's extremely time consuming but, the more you do it, the faster you will get at it.

I've been exploring Fortunata's ancestry, which you may or may not want. I found the death record for her mother at age 96. I'm sure you would want that record, and I will be posting that some time later today. I've also found records for some of her siblings, which you may or may not want. One of Fortunata's sisters is of particular interest, as she was the second wife of an Antonino Scaravilli, and they had a son named Pasquale together. Actually, this Antonino also had a son named Pasquale with his first wife.

As to whether or not there were two different Pasquale Scaravilli living on via Sirene at the same time, I can now confirm that there were. I found the marriage record of the one Pasquale to Grazia Cerni Caputo in 1881. His father was a Salvadore, and not an Antonino, as was yours.

One more thing- to make things even more confusing-the double surname does not appear in most of the earlier records. So you get either Spitaleri or Scaravilli, but not Brasco Spitaleri or Invelinato Scaravilli.

That's all for now.

Erudita

[erudita74]

Tom

Another Concetta of Pasquale and Fortunata-

Death of Concetta Invelenata Scaravilli on September 6, 1887 at age 1 in the house at #2 via Sireni. Her father, Pasquale (Invelenata* Scaravilli) was a villico/farmer, and her mother, Fortunata Brasco Spitaleri, was a contadina (peasant/farmer).

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

*spelled as Invelenato in the margin of the record.

The following MAY BE the corresponding birth record-again, the infant Concetta, was born from Pasquale’s natural union with a woman who did not consent to be named. The birth took place in the house on via Dell’Arco*without a number. Pasquale was age 26 and a villico/farmer

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1946858

•I have another family, whom I believe to be related to your Pasquale, living on this street

[tbandwen]

Hi Erudita,
It has been about a month since I did any additional searches. Sometimes I have to walk away so I don't get discouraged and confused. Again, I really appreciate all your help and patience.
I tried to use Family Search but for the last few days there must be a problem as the data will not scroll more than 10 pages and then it locks up. I will try again later.
Just to keep thing straight:
The Saraniti and Fontana names are my mothers family. My fathers parents are Geatano Bentivegna from SanTeodora Sicily and Concetta Scaravelli. They were married in the USA. As I mentioned in the past my grandmothers have the same mother, Fortunata Spitalieri. I made contact with a distant cousin of Geatano Bentivegna's family in Sicily. I hope they can provide more information so I can go on another search.
Thanks
Tom