Atto di Recognizione? Marriage

[TonyM]

I'm trying to understand this Atto di Recognizione:
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

I'm hoping it can help me find the marriage certificate for Francesco & Maria

Here's what I know:
1) This Atto di Ricognizione is saying that Angela is the daughter of Maria, but as of November 13, 1857 will now be recognized as the daughter of Francesco
2) 3 days before this date, Angela was born of Maria and a "padre ignoto" and given Maria's last name
3) Francesco and Maria later have 2 children in 1864 and 1869
4) In Angela's 1899 marriage certificate and 1902 death certificate Francesco is referred to as Angela's father.

Thank you for any help -- I've been working on this a long time. Here is my attempt to transcribe this Atto di Recognizione. The handwriting and my Italian are not so good, so it's incomplete:

Atto di Ricognizione
Num d'Ordine Centoquarantuno (141)
L'Anno Milleottocintocinquantasettte il di tredici delmese di Novembre alle ore quindici quatro Noi ===== Sindaco ed Ufficiale delio Stato Civile del Comune di Castelvetrano Distretto di Mazara* Provincia di Trapani comparso Franisco Mega di anni trentuno di professione Caldareio domicialiate in questa commune via Parrne il quale ha dichiarate riconoscuro per propria figlia Angela Licciardi nata il giorno dieci del currente mese alle ore quatterodici un nascita fu quest (?) in questo Stato Civilatatte (?) il giorno dei sudetta mese e dichiarate della Liratriu Onesria Bisso (?) qual figlia di Maria Licciardo di strada ignato

La dichiarazione ricognizione noti detta in fatto alla presensa di Raffaile Forina di anni trentotto di professione Larlo (?) requesto domicialiato in via Piazz sono in a di Francesco Costo di anni ventiquattro di professione (?)

rignerlo domiciliato in via Pavane testimoni interranato al presente atto i la une (?) di Mega per a detti

[Tessa78]

This Atto di Ricognizione is saying that Angela is the daughter of Maria, but as of November 13, 1857 will now be recognized as the daughter of Francesco

This is most likely the date of the marriage at which the recognition was made formally.

What is Francesco's surname - Mega?

Can you re-post the link - it is not working

T.

[TonyM]

Yes, Mega. Are you saying the ricognizione document substitutes for a marriage certificate? That would explain why I've not found any marriage certificate despite searching exhaustively.

I've tried to respond many times to include the link you request but the system will not let me post links to the forum it seems. I've reached out for help at least 4 times with no response.

I'm going to try to trick it here. I made a "tiny url" leading to the document which you can reconstruct by typing in

tinyurl dot com slash yxcnvhex

where 'dot' is replaced by '.' and the 'slash' is replaced by '/'

[Tessa78]

Yes, Mega.

I've tried to respond many times to include the link you request but the system will not let me post links to the forum it seems. I've reached out for help at least 4 times with no response.

Thanks for trying to help me.

Let's try this...

Tell me where in the antenati site you found this record...
If you give me the year, and the image number, perhaps I can locate it.

OK... I found the recognition. Here is the link.
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

I will review your transcription and post again.

EDIT TO ADD

Atto di Ricognizione
Num d'Ordine Centoquarantuno (141)
L'Anno Milleottocentoquarantasette il di tredici del mese di Novembre alle ore quindici quatro Noi Francesco Dottor Signorelli===== Sindaco ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Castelvetrano Distretto di Mazara* Provincia di Trapani E' comparso Francesco Mega di anni trentuno di professione Calzalaio domiciliato in questa comune via Pavone il quale ha dichiarato riconoscuro per propria figlia Angela Licciarda nata il giorno dieci del currente mese alle ore quattordici un nascita fu mi presenta?in questo Stato Civile il giorno del sudetto mese e dichiarata della Levatrice Onofrio Rizzo

There is no mention of a marriage here. Perhaps the marriage took place after the birth of Angela and before the birth of the other children in 1864 and 1868. I will see what I can find.

Can you provide the day and month of the child born in 1864?

T.

[TonyM]

See above where I played a trick on the system to give you the link. If you don't want to do that, here are the directions to the rigocognizione document:

Home
Sfoglia i registri
Archivio di Stato di Trapani
Stato civile della restaurazione
Castelvetrano
Diversi
1857
Immagine 286

the associated birth also has a marginal not that mentions the ricognizione document. That birth record is located at:

Home
Sfoglia i registri
Archivio di Stato di Trapani
Stato civile della restaurazione
Castelvetrano
Nati
1857
suppl. 2
Immagine 171

Thanks again

[erudita74]

Francesco's occupation was calderaio (spelled with a j in the record)- a coppersmith

the levatrice's first name was Onofria and not Onofrio which is the masculine form

[TonyM]

To answer your questions about the children:
Gaetano b. 6/3/1869 (m/d/yy format), m. 11/8/1898
Giuseppe b. 6/7/1864, m. 10/19/1892
Maria Giuseppa b. 3/20/1861, m. 9/6/1881
possibly another: Felicia Maria d. 1867 (only an index record)

I've looked in all these records for clue to finding the marriage of the mother (Maria d. 3/16/1914) and father (Francesco b.12/29/1824, d. 2/17/1889). All above are in Castelvetrano except Francesco's birth). If I was able to post links I would.

Thanks again

[Tessa78]

Francesco's occupation was calderaio (spelled with a j in the record)- a coppersmith

the levatrice's first name was Onofria and not Onofrio which is the masculine form

Thanks for the second set of eyes, erudita

T.

[Tessa78]

To answer your questions about the children:
Gaetano b. 6/3/1869 (m/d/yy format), m. 11/8/1898
Giuseppe b. 6/7/1864, m. 10/19/1892
Maria Giuseppa b. 3/20/1861, m. 9/6/1881
possibly another: Felicia Maria d. 1867 (only an index record)

I've looked in all these records for clue to finding the marriage of the mother (Maria d. 3/16/1914) and father (Francesco b.12/29/1824, d. 2/17/1889). All above are in Castelvetrano except Francesco's birth). If I was able to post links I would.

Thanks again

Were the births in Castelvetrano? I searched for Maria Giuseppa, but did not find her in the index.

EDIT to add...

I found Giuseppe in 1864 in Castelvetrano - the parents do not appear to be married.
Also, there is a notation of marriage for Giuseppe in 1892 on 19 October.
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

T.

[mmogno]

Atto di Ricognizione
Num d'Ordine Centoquarantuno (141)
L'Anno Milleottocentocinquantasette il di tredici del mese di Novembre alle ore quindici. Avanti Noi Francesco Dottor Signorelli Sindaco ed Ufficiale dello Stato Civile del Comune di Castelvetrano Distretto di Mazara Provincia di Trapani E' comparso Francesco Mega di anni trentuno di professione Calderajo domiciliato in questa comune via Pavone il quale ha dichiarato riconoscere per propria figlia Angela Licciarda nata il giorno dieci del corrente mese alle ore quattordici la cui nascita fu iscritta in questo Stato Civile stesso il giorno undici del sudetto mese e dichiarata dalla Levatrice Onofria Rizzo qual figlia di Maria Licciardo e di padre ignoto

T.

[Tessa78]

On Francesco Mega's death act in 1889, he is listed as the husband of Maria Licciardi

However, I checked the marriage index for years 1866-1889 and did not find a marriage.
Did you search backwards from 1865?

Death act
http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 0.jpg.html

It is interesting to note that Francesco's place of birth, according to his death act, was ISPANI, Province of Salerno, Campania.

T.

[TonyM]

yes, all that I gave above were Castelvetrano except the birth of Francesco.

I'm very interested in your conclusion that Francesco and Maria were not married at the time of Giuseppe's birth in 1864. Can you explain why you conclude that?

The birth of Maria Giuseppa is in the index at "Immagine 394". I wish I could send the link, but since I can't I'll describe: it's the 4th from the bottom on the first page of M's. In the column for the parents it says, "Fran..co Licciarda Maria" and references the # as 171. On that page it says "è comparso Francesco...domiciliato in questa via Parone....ed ha dichiarato che la stessa è nata da Maria Lucciarda di anni ventuno domicialiata ivi..." To me that meant that Maria lived in the same place as Francesco, so I assumed that meant they were married at that point, especially since Maria's last name is given as Mega in the battesimo part. Am I missing something?

[TonyM]

Yes, I have searched so many dates and places for Maria and her marriage that you wouldn't believe it, including the ones you mentioned, and including going page by page through everything related when there was no index. It has been exhausting, and that's why I wrote to this forum. My best clue is the atto di Recognizione.

Yes, when I found Francesco's place of birth a few months ago it was a very important step. I could tell you quite a bit about Ispani and the surrounding region. But what I'm really interested in is why Francesco left Ispani; he left a place where his family had lived for generations and began living in a new place where, as far as I can see, no other family lived. My thought was that Maria was the key to this mystery, and therefore I was very interested in finding their marriage certificate. According to her death certificate and other documents she was born in Castelvetrano, but the name Lucciardi (or the other spellings I've seen ending in -a or -o) is very rare and I can't find any sign of her birth either. It doesn't help that her birth year varies on the various documents I gave. These people were illiterate and there are many errors in the records.

I even searched cities nearby to Castelvetrano and Ispani with the thought that they might have wanted to get married in way that was as hidden as possible. It's hard for me to imagine that the 2 of them would live together in ~1860 without being married.

[Tessa78]

It was not uncommon for a couple to be married in the church at that time, but not in a civil ceremony. If that was the case, the civil records (which are the ones we have found) would not list them as married. It is just a possibility.

The reason I concluded that they might not be married (in a civil ceremony) in the birth act of Giuseppe, is because they both appeared, and when identified in the record she was not identified as his wife, nor were they identified as a married couple. Usually, but not always, on the birth this is indicated. I will take a look at Maria Giuseppa's birth and see if there is a clue.

I have continued to search for the marriage, but without success. I looked for a "pubblicazione" for the marriage in Ispani, as this was required for a groom who was not from the town in which he was married, but the records did not appear to be available unless one views them at the Family History Center.

Can you tell me the year of Maria Licciardi's death?

T.

[TonyM]

Maria's death is 3/16/1914 - immagine 57 in Castelvetrano Morti

Thank you very much for all your help. Very interesting. I am in Italy and am planning on traveling to both locations, perhaps in a month or 2. Can you suggest how I could do research at that time?