Help with the translation of marriage record of Francesco Orione

[jrbak]

Good Morning,
I am in need of help with the translation of what I believe are the same marriage records for Francesco Orione. They are different dates with the same father, Jacobi? and wife, Teresa Rosa? Favaro? Thank you so very much.
The 1799 doc is on pg. 40.
The 1801 doc is on pg. 46.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

I do appreciate your help so much.
Thank you,
Jefferie (jrbak)

[erudita74]

1801 document-

December 7(?) 1801

Groom: Francesco Orione, son of deceased Giacomo (Orione); widower of Teresa Rosa
Bride: Teresa Favaro, daughter of Pietro Favaro

One of the banns was on Dec 4 1801. I can't make out the dates of the others. As a result of the banns, no legitimate and canonical impediments were detected.

Witnesses were Giuseppe, son of Antonio Lova and Melchiorre, son of Domenico Favaro.

[erudita74]

Document dated Jan 26, 1799

Francesco Orione, son of deceased Giacomo, and Teresa, daughter of deceased Giovanni Rosa

Banns for their marriage were on Dec 23rd and 30th of 1798, and Jan 1 of 1799 and resulted in no impediments to their upcoming marriage.

What is confusing is the names of the witnesses listed. It looks like the witnesses for the first two couples, including yours, were the same people. Gaspare of Gaspare Zucchino, and then it reads Francesco of deceased Giacomo Orione. Confusing, unless your groom served as a witness for the first couple???

The other set of witnesses, which were for the third couple, were Luigi of Domenico Negri and Antonio of deceased Domenico Pavignano.

Also having trouble deciphering the names of the parishes in this record.

[jrbak]

Dear Erudita (Erudita74),
Francesco is my 4th great grandfather and I believe from your translation of the dates, he first married Teresa Rosa in Jan of 1799 and when she died he married Teresa Favaro in 1801. I had Favaro with a ? by his name for marriage and I had wondered why. But seeing the marriage doc (below) of Antonio Bertola and Giacinta Orione showed me where the names came from.

I wonder if the witnesses were there for all three couples as it looks the same on the other marriages? Some names I recognize from my family and others not. What is your thought?

Also, I know from prior translations from Mmogno and PippoM, that the churches are SS Pietro and Laurenti or (Lorenzo) found at the top.

Re: Help with the Latin translation of 1836 marriage record between Bertola and Orione
Post by AngelaGrace56 » 13 Jul 2019, 15:46

mmogno wrote: ↑13 Jul 2019, 14:36
Marriage on Aug 11, 1835
Antonio's father was Lorenzo and his mother Giovanna Maria Olearo.
Giacinta's father was Francesco Orione and her mother Teresa Favaro

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=442795

I am going to close now before I lose this reply to you. If I think of something else I will send another reply. Thank you so much for all of your translation work. You are working so hard and I do appreciate it.

Talk with you soon,
Jefferie (jrbak)

[erudita74]

Jefferie,
Unfortunately, the two churches mentioned in the 1799 record are not S Pietro and Lorenzo. The names are on lines 4 and 6 of this record. I tried to research possibilities, but had no luck.

I also believe that, in the last three lines of the record, it indicates that Gaspare and Francesco were witnesses for the first two marriages listed at the top of the record, and that Luigi was witness for the third marriage listed in the record. Possibly mmogno will help you with the Latin spelling of this section, as I know I won't get it right.

Erudita

[erudita74]

correction to 1799 record-

line 3 under the last couple's names-to the right-after die 6, it says "in festo Epiphania 1799"-so this is not the name of a parish, but is referring to Jan 6, 1799, the date of this bann, being on the feast day of the Epiphany.

line 1 after the names-all the way to the right-for the bann which was on Dec 21st, I believe it is referring to this day being the feast of Saint Thomas. So again, not a parish name.

Sorry I had originally misread this info in the document.

Erudita

[jrbak]

Dear Erudita (Erudita74),
Thank you so much for getting back to me and thank you for all your work. I am not certain as to the lines you are talking about: lines 4 and 6- 1799 document?

does line 4 start with praemissis denunciation id est pro ? die 21 xbris (December) in festus.....
and line 6 start with pro B die 30, xbris (December) et die ? Januarii....

I cannot see any names for churches here or through this paragraph. Maybe you could give me the Latin you are seeing. Recently, Mmogno posted a translation for me in Latin on my post for Giacinto Benedetto which is helpful for me looking at these current records I am looking at. I am googleing to find out the translation which I can make out (broadly speaking), not word for word unless it translates that way. Between his Latin and your translation into English on this post I can understand what is being said. I don't see any church names here? The only ones I see are at the very top of the page SS Petri and Laurenti.

I believe you are right about the witnesses.

Thank you again for your help so much.
Jefferie (jrbak)

[mmogno]

"...
praemissis denunciat(ionibus) idest
pro p(rim)o (first marriage: Piege) die 21 .....
pro 2o ( secundo = second marriage: Francesco Orione to Teresa) die 23 et 30 Xbris, et p(rim)a die januari
pro 3o (tertio = third marriage: Ferraro) ....
inter Missarum solemnia iuxta formam C(oncilii) Tridentini, nulloque detecto legitimo et canonico impedimento confessi prius ac sacra com(unio)ne refecti, praestito solemniter .....
Coram testib(us)
pro duobus primis (= first and second marriage) Gasparo ex Gasparo Zucchino, et Francisco quondam Jacobi Orione,
pro tertio ...."

[erudita74]

Thank you, mmogno, for doing the Latin transcriptions for Jefferie. These are beyond my ability, although I am managing to translate a lot of the Latin into English.
Erudita

[jrbak]

Dear Erudita (Erudita74) and Mmogno,
Thank you both so much. Thank you Mmogno for translating this Latin record for me also. I wondered what all of these signs with degrees meant so now I know. I am going to take a day to digest what you said in the post and later I may have some questions- not certain yet. I just wanted you both to know how grateful I am.
Thank you,
Jefferie (jrbak)