Help understanding these passenger manifests

[lyn1982]

Can anybody help me make sense of these passenger manifests for a Giuseppe Ebboli and his sister Dorthea. I believe this Giuseppe is my great grandfather.

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JXD7-7N5 numbers 20-24

Why are his and all of his families names crossed out? Was there a way to pay in advance or something and they didn't make the voyage? Or does it mean they tried to board but were denied for some reason?

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JFYR-TMP numbers 3 and 4

What does it say under occupation? Also, why are a 10 and 11 year old traveling alone? Was that really allowed back then? It says they weren't in the US before, so I take it that means they did not make the 1900 passenger manifest I asked about above.

These ones:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJKF-8MJ numbers 15 and 16

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG5S-46K8 names near bottom, written instead of typed like the others edit: that link doesn't appear to go to the detaine info so here's a link to it at Ellis island https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/pa ... 5nZXIiOw==

Were they deported this time? I don't understand because under one of the columns it says stay. Under another, it lists a boat name and date for deportation. The other manifest for this date seems to have a stamp for deported too. But it also says that they are American citizens, so why would American citizens, even if sick, be deported back to Italy? Surely if they had family in the US the family could have come and gotten them. If they were deported is there any way to view the manifest of the ship that took them back into Italy?

[EdwardFaruolo]

I see this same family with the same siblings on five family trees on Ancestry.com
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 6140921310
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 1764426157
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 9978068015
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 9369151625
https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tr ... 9112291109

[lyn1982]

Thanks. I've seen those/looked at the info on ancestry. I'm just curious about these manifests and what happened with them.

[darkerhorse]

Just an educated guess but the handwritten word "stay" suggests they weren't deported, especially given that their parents were in America already.

This link has basic information. If you find "SI" meaning special inquiry there should be additional documentation available.
http://www.pbs.org/genealogy-roadshow/b ... d-records/

[lyn1982]

Thanks.

I can't seem to to find where to view the additional documentation available.

[AngelaGrace56]

Can anybody help me make sense of these passenger manifests for a Giuseppe Ebboli and his sister Dorotea. I believe this Giuseppe is my great grandfather.

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JXD7-7N5 numbers 20-24

Why are his and all of his families names crossed out? Was there a way to pay in advance or something and they didn't make the voyage? Or does it mean they tried to board but were denied for some reason?
Yes, you are correct - generally when the names are crossed out it means that they didn't make the voyage for whatever reason.

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JFYR-TMP numbers 3 and 4

What does it say under occupation? Also, why are a 10 and 11 year old traveling alone? Was that really allowed back then? It says they weren't in the US before, so I take it that means they did not make the 1900 passenger manifest I asked about above.

I'm reading "bonnet maker".?

These ones:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJKF-8MJ numbers 15 and 16

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG5S-46K8 names near bottom, written instead of typed like the others edit: that link doesn't appear to go to the detaine info so here's a link to it at Ellis island https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/pa ... 5nZXIiOw==

Were they deported this time? I don't understand because under one of the columns it says stay. Under another, it lists a boat name and date for deportation. The other manifest for this date seems to have a stamp for deported too. But it also says that they are American citizens, so why would American citizens, even if sick, be deported back to Italy? Surely if they had family in the US the family could have come and gotten them. If they were deported is there any way to view the manifest of the ship that took them back into Italy?

Looking at the document, it looks like they have crossed out "American" and circled "Italian" to emphasise that they were Italian. Have you found documentation to suggest that their parents were naturalised?


Lyn:

I thought you might be interested in looking at the following documentary about the abandoned immigrant hospital on Ellis Island. It's very moving, shocking and quite an eye opener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuPZr68T_fg

Angela

[darkerhorse]

Just to clarify, is it agreed that in 1903 siblings Dorotea and Giuseppe Ebboli immigrated together as 10 and 11 year-olds, passage paid by uncle, joining their father in NF; and then again in 1911 as 18 and 19 year-olds, as American citizens, and were then detained due to illness (and most likely released and not deported)?

If yes, then they must have become US citizens and then temporarily returned to Italy between 1903 and 1911.

Also, they had been booked earlier but were crossed out because they likely didn't make the voyage at that time. So, their father, mother, and other siblings had preceded them to America.

[lyn1982]

Can anybody help me make sense of these passenger manifests for a Giuseppe Ebboli and his sister Dorotea. I believe this Giuseppe is my great grandfather.

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JXD7-7N5 numbers 20-24

Why are his and all of his families names crossed out? Was there a way to pay in advance or something and they didn't make the voyage? Or does it mean they tried to board but were denied for some reason?
Yes, you are correct - generally when the names are crossed out it means that they didn't make the voyage for whatever reason.

This one:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JFYR-TMP numbers 3 and 4

What does it say under occupation? Also, why are a 10 and 11 year old traveling alone? Was that really allowed back then? It says they weren't in the US before, so I take it that means they did not make the 1900 passenger manifest I asked about above.

I'm reading "bonnet maker".?

These ones:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJKF-8MJ numbers 15 and 16

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG5S-46K8 names near bottom, written instead of typed like the others edit: that link doesn't appear to go to the detaine info so here's a link to it at Ellis island https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/pa ... 5nZXIiOw==

Were they deported this time? I don't understand because under one of the columns it says stay. Under another, it lists a boat name and date for deportation. The other manifest for this date seems to have a stamp for deported too. But it also says that they are American citizens, so why would American citizens, even if sick, be deported back to Italy? Surely if they had family in the US the family could have come and gotten them. If they were deported is there any way to view the manifest of the ship that took them back into Italy?

Looking at the document, it looks like they have crossed out "American" and circled "Italian" to emphasise that they were Italian. Have you found documentation to suggest that their parents were naturalised?


Lyn:

I thought you might be interested in looking at the following documentary about the abandoned immigrant hospital on Ellis Island. It's very moving, shocking and quite an eye opener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuPZr68T_fg

Angela

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure the parents were naturlized but I think so. Do you think they were deported? I couldn't figure out from those manifests.

Watched a little of the documentary. Very sad.

[lyn1982]

Just to clarify, is it agreed that in 1903 siblings Dorotea and Giuseppe Ebboli immigrated together as 10 and 11 year-olds, passage paid by uncle, joining their father in NF; and then again in 1911 as 18 and 19 year-olds, as American citizens, and were then detained due to illness (and most likely released and not deported)?

If yes, then they must have become US citizens and then temporarily returned to Italy between 1903 and 1911.

Also, they had been booked earlier but were crossed out because they likely didn't make the voyage at that time. So, their father, mother, and other siblings had preceded them to America.

I figured they didn't make the crossed out voyage but I was curious if that meant they paid in advance and didn't show, or if instead it meant they were denied access, perhaps due to illness or for some other reason?

I'm not sure if they were released. The manifest is confusing. It says stay but also has a date and ship name for deportation. Also more evidence that they were deported is the fact that there is a stamp on the one ship page saying deported on their names. I just wasn't sure if that was changed at the last moment or what happened. But if they were deported their should be another arrival record for Giuseppe if he is mine. I believe this is the later one for Dortea under her married name. More evidence to support that they were deported, she seems to have stayed in Italy and married before finally immigrating. https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse ... cessSource

[AngelaGrace56]

Lyn:

I thought you might be interested in looking at the following documentary about the abandoned immigrant hospital on Ellis Island. It's very moving, shocking and quite an eye opener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuPZr68T_fg

Angela

Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure the parents were naturlized but I think so. Do you think they were deported? I couldn't figure out from those manifests.

Watched a little of the documentary. Very sad.

Hi Lynn

I have limited experience with Ship Manifests. There are others here on the forum who are much more experienced with them, so hopefully they will be able to help with this. They may not have seen this thread yet.

My thought is that they were not deported. Going from memory, they were hospitalised for a contageous eye infection. Possibily the plan initially was for them to be deported but then after their time in hospital, and following their discharge, and then an investigation, they were possibily allowed to stay in the country. It seems like the "S.I." is written over the "deported" word? I've really only had a good look at the following passenger list to base my thinking on: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... 3AJJKF-8MJ
Anyways, I might be completely wrong - "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Angela

[lyn1982]

Thanks for the reply AngelaGrace! Didn't notice the S.I. word. Must mean stay issued. Probably at the last minute I assume.

[AngelaGrace56]

Thanks for the reply AngelaGrace! Didn't notice the S.I. word. Must mean stay issued. Probably at the last minute I assume.

My understanding is that "S.I." means that they were held for a Board of "Special Inquiry". There may be addition information relating to this at the end of the Manifest. There should be other pages. I rarely use Ellis Island and haven't been on the site for about a year but I know that I've seen additional pages at other times. I can't look at the moment, as I don't have my password with me, but hopefully someone else who is more familiar with the site will be be able to help you.

Edit to Add: Have you seen the following link to do with Manifest Markings. It mentions "Special Inquiry" (S.I.) right at the bottom of the page.

Angela

[darkerhorse]

I agree that SI means special inquiry, suggesting there's more paperwork.

[erudita74]

image 1178 starts the list of detained aliens. image 1180 starts the list of those held over for special inquiry.

This website might help with the markings on the manifests:

https://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/Manifests/

[lyn1982]

Thank you again Angela, darkerhorse, and thank you erudita! I'll take a look at the end and see what it says.