More Latin help, please

[NickAndreola]

I'm trying to get all I can out of this record because there is some confusion in later records......

http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

So this copy of the birth record in the 1814 marriage starts off with all the 'usual' stuff about the parish and what folio the record is in...goes to 1794 2nd day of August (correct?)

Then talks about the mid wife, Cesidia Barone, reporting the birth with the father, Michele Domenicucci (as seen now) and mother Cesidia Naddeo and the child's given name of Rosa Lucia ??????:

This is the important part!....What exactly is going on after her given name? Why is Angela Petricola in there?

I appreciate the help that may solve a mystery!

[erudita74]

Rosa Lucia Nunzia

Godmother Nunzia, wife of Angelo Paolo Petricola

[NickAndreola]

Thank You!

While that is absolutely great information and adds much clarity, it doesn't really help to solve the mystery other than to see that that these families were closely connected. Back to the hunt for clues...and thank you again!

[erudita74]

Nick
To clarify-there is no midwife mentioned in this church record although midwives were authorized to baptize an infant they had helped to deliver if the infant was in imminent danger of dying . They also sometimes were asked by the family to serve as the godmother. Barone's first name is Cesidio (male). He is the church person who baptized the infant. There is a word referring to his position in the church-condjutor. I can't find a translation for it.

[mmogno]

There is a word referring to his position in the church-coadjutor.

[erudita74]

There is a word referring to his position in the church-coadjutor.

Thanks so much, G. I was stumped on this one. So basically the individual who baptized the infant was an assistant to the person (possibly a bishop) who was the head of this particular church.

Erudita

[NickAndreola]

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Perhaps you'd like to take a stab at the mystery....?

This is a sample of what I keep running into with this family:

Here is the marriage act for Angelantonio Basile, 25 (B.~1785), the son of fu Franco Basile and di Lucia Mucciante, married Grazia Domenicucci, 18 (B.~1792), the daughter of di Michele Domenicucci and di Cesidia PETRICOLA on July 8, 1810. http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

Here is the processetti

Page 1 is Michele Domenicucci and Cesidia PETRICOLA making their marks on June 13th to show their consent to Grazia's marriage. Page 2 is the beginning of the publications and lists Michele's age as 49 (B.~1761) and Cesidia PETRICOLA's age as 40 (B.~1770)
Page 6 is the 1792 birth record for Grazia Maria Domenicucci. It lists her father as Michele (son of Lorenzo) and Cesidia (daughter of Nicola NADDEO) http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0



The 1794 birth you guys helped with above is another daughter of this couple... her mother is listed as PETRICOLA on her 1851 death record but her marriage records use Cesidia NADDEO .... BUT.... take a look at this publication where Petricola is lined out and replaced with Naddeo.....http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0


Any ideas what's going on?

[erudita74]

r Nick
I assume you also found the death records of Cesidia, Michele's wife, in 1817 and his death record in 1832. Her death record lists her as his wife, age 50, who died on Aug 4, 1817. The record, however, does not give a surname for her or her parents' names. (#60, image 44).

His death record July 1, 1832, says he is the widower of Cesidia Naddeo.

It's unfortunate that the church records for this town are not available online. What you have with the processetti are just extracted copies of the originals, which were hand-copied by the priest or his clerk from the various parish books. Sometimes there are mistakes in those extracted copies, particularly when there are multiple individuals in the same town with the same a first and last names who are close in age. I'm not saying though that that is what is going on with your records, I really don't know.

I also don't know if this particular town ever had double surnames. This proved to be a major issue in one of my husband's ancestral towns in Sicily. I had only the civil records, and no early church records, and even the town official there was baffled by the surnames alternating among records, and yet the town has recorded the individuals as the same people.

Maybe someone else on the forum has other ideas for you. I really don't know what to tell you. Sorry.

Erudita

[NickAndreola]

Yes, I had those puzzle pieces and I've researched many of their other children and none add any clarity so the same question persists.

There is no need to apologize Erudita! I value your insights and appreciate your time--just having you look at this helps me to feel that the issue is maybe NOT that I'm just not smart or experienced enough to see the nose on my face!

I've been spending quite a bit of time in the Castel del Monte records and haven't seen this break in the 'normal' pattern before. Once, in another town looking into another family, I found something similar but reversed and therefore sensible after the puzzle pieces were on the table......Birth record listed the person as the daughter of Maria XXXXX and padre incerto---the later records listed her the daughter of Luigi YYYYY so we were able to understand that he 'recognized' the child as his later and she used YYYYY after that.

In this case, using Grazia's birth & marriage as an example, the 1792 birth lists Cesidia as the daughter of Nicola Naddeo and then the 1810 marriage lists Cesidia as Petricola and we've not been able to imagine an explanation for that shift!

Nick

[erudita74]

Thanks, Nick. Unravelling these mysteries sometimes has nothing to do with how experienced you are or how smart you are, so please don't short-change yourself. I think you're doing very well considering the content, or lack of content, of the records with which you have to deal. I also think that these so-called "mysteries" are the things that make our quests for the truth never ending. I probably have now been at this type of research for close to 30 years and still have many unresolved issues in my own ancestry and that of my husband. I've also certainly wanted to quit this type of research many times, yet here I still am. So be reassured that you're certainly not alone feeling as you do. And be patient, as sometimes it takes many years for new pieces of these puzzles to come our way.
Erudita