Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Over 25 million Italians have emigrated between 1861 and 1960 with a migration boom between 1871 and 1915 when over 13,5 million emigrants left the country for European and overseas destinations.
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Rruffolo
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Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by Rruffolo »

My 1948 case was denied this week because the judge ruled that my when grandfather in 1932 naturalized his U.S born 12-year old daughter lost her right to Italian citizenship.

This decision seems incorrect according to how I understand rules of Italian citizenship. Does anyone have experience with this sort of denial? My attorney Luigi Paino seems optimistic but says a lot of judges do not always follow the rules and instructions set forth by the secretary of interior.
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qualdom
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by qualdom »

Unfortunately, this type of ruling seems to have taken effect in the summer of 2019:

https://www.mylawyerinitaly.com/dual-ci ... t-of-rome/

Although the article is optimistic to some extent. I wish you the best of luck.
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joetucciarone
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by joetucciarone »

Hi - this site addresses the citizenship of a child born in the U.S. to alien parents:

https://citizenpath.com/citizenship-through-parents/

Here's what it says:

"The 14th Amendment to the Constitution establishes that people who are “born or naturalized” in the United States are citizens. Children who are born in the United States are entitled to United States citizenship, regardless of the nationality of their parents, or their immigration status. This is what many people call “birthright citizenship.” So if your child is born in the United States, the claim to citizenship is clear and can be established with a birth certificate."

I guess this means your grandfather's 12-year-old daughter (your mother?) automatically became a U.S. citizen when she was born in the U.S. Or, to put it another way, in the eyes of U.S. law, she was never an Italian citizen.

Are you saying the 12-year-old daughter was denied the right to apply for Italian citizenship by the Italian government?
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qualdom
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by qualdom »

joetucciarone wrote: 01 Jun 2021, 18:57 I guess this means your grandfather's 12-year-old daughter (your mother?) automatically became a U.S. citizen when she was born in the U.S. Or, to put it another way, in the eyes of U.S. law, she was never an Italian citizen.

Are you saying the 12-year-old daughter was denied the right to apply for Italian citizenship by the Italian government?
I don't think the issue is related to someone being born in the US. The law of 1912 respects jus soli citizenship and doesn't consider being a native born US citizen to be an ipso facto renunciation of Italian citizenship. That's why it's no problem for the US born child to transmit Italian citizenship if the Italian born father never naturalizes.

The issue here is that the Italian born father naturalized when his children were not yet considered adults. Therefore, the naturalization of the Italian born father is also considered to be a renunciation of Italian citizenship by his underage children.
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mler
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by mler »

gualdom wrote:
The issue here is that the Italian born father naturalized when his children were not yet considered adults. Therefore, the naturalization of the Italian born father is also considered to be a renunciation of Italian citizenship by his underage children.

————

That does indeed seem to be the issue. However, for those going through the paternal line, it has never been a problem at the consulates. My own father was 9 years old when his father naturalized, and I don’t doubt that many people who have obtained citizenship recognition through the consulates have similar timelines.
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arturo.c
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by arturo.c »

If we take a look at the Italian Law on Citizenship which was in force at the time (Law 13th June 1912 no. 555), we will find that article 7 reads as follows:

"Salve speciali disposizioni da stipulare con trattati internazionali, il cittadino italiano nato e residente in uno Stato estero, dal quale sia ritenuto proprio cittadino per nascita, conserva la cittadinanza italiana ma, divenuto maggiorenne o emancipato, può rinunziarvi."

Which in English means:

"Except special provisions to be stipulated with international treaties, the Italian citizen born and resident in a foreign country, from which he/she is considered a citizen by birth, retains Italian citizenship but, having become of age or emancipated, can renounce it."

If an Italian citizen had a daughter born in the U.S. after 1912, she would have been a double citizen (Italian and American) from birth, and would not have lost her Italian citizenship upon her father naturalisation, as provided by that specific article of law.

Therefore the ruling cited in the link posted in qualdom's reply to the original post was clearly flawed, and was subsequently overturned by the appeal court, as shown in this link:
https://www.mylawyerinitaly.com/news/de ... tizenship/
Rruffolo
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by Rruffolo »

.My US born Grandmother was 12 years old when her Italian father naturalized. I'm in the process of appealing, but it looks like my changes are not very good.

It looks like the appeals court is not consisten on it's ruling for US born children of naturalizing parents.

https://www.mylawyerinitaly.com/dual-ci ... t-of-rome/

Hopefully things will change by the time my appeal is heard in March.
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mler
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by mler »

This is a strange inconsistency between the consulates and the courts. The consulates correctly consider that the 1912 prevented the loss of citizenship if the father naturalized during the child’s minority, and the child was born in a jus soli country before the date of naturalization.

For some reason, some court decisions do not interpret it in that manner thus adding an additional hurdle in 1948 cases. The lawyers need to point out the relevant section of the 1912 law on appeal.
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Re: Children born in U.S before father's naturalization

Post by bmorocco »

I thought I might find a post like this...

I am pursuing citizenship through ICA, and was just told about the possibility of this occurring. My grandfather was 16 when his mother naturalized (1940)...
Judges are seemingly at their own discretion.

My ICA contact told me that this denial is happening and so we are trying to pursue an alternate route. But they did say they would pursue an appeal in the event I had only this route.

Disappointing. And yes, seems to be a discrepancy between the consulates and the courts.

Hopefully the NEWER ARTICLE, dated SEPT 1 2021, will positively affect the outcome of such cases by allowing for the passing-on to occur, despite the age of minority.
Bill Morocco

Names in my family I'm working on: Muraca, Moraca, Santelli, Tolone, Patituccio, Castelucci, Grandinetti
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