Phrase Translation

[darkerhorse]

In Record 116, I need a translation for the phrase starting with (1) Postilla...which I believe refers to the mother, Rosa Barone, listed above.

https://www.antenati.san.beniculturali. ... d=35930442

[erudita74]

It appears to be a footnote cancelling the word Barone and substituting "di Mauro"

[darkerhorse]

Thanks. That makes sense. I had her surname as Di Mauro from other documents. I was wondering why Barone.

[darkerhorse]

I think the person reporting the birth wasn't a relative.

[erudita74]

The declarant was a 63 year seamstress living in the town-Carmela Garana, the daughter of dec Sebastiano. Her relationship to the parents is not given in the record. I've just never seen a correction concerning a surname worded the way it is in this record, regardless of whether the declarant is a relative or not.

[AngelaGrace56]

Thanks. That makes sense. I had her surname as Di Mauro from other documents. I was wondering why Barone.

@darkerhorse

I believe it is the clerk that has made the error in the record. If you have a look at the base of the record (top right page) the same clerk has written that the declarant announced the birth in place of the husband of di Mauro who was unable to do so because he was absent from the town busy working.....


Now I can’t quite catch all the words after lavoro but I think I’m reading the word “mortiette”? It seems to be saying that he was busy in business with the dead, but that can’t be it, unless he was some sort of undertaker or something. Maybe someone else will take a look so that you have more information about the husband, darkerhorse. I'll come back to it later as sometimes when I come back and look at document with fresh eyes I can read it more clearly.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I notice that it says that the baby's father was a campagnolo, countryman so farmer.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Thanks. That makes sense. I had her surname as Di Mauro from other documents. I was wondering why Barone.

@darkerhorse

I believe it is the clerk that has made the error in the record. If you have a look at the base of the record (top right page) the same clerk has written that the declarant announced the birth in place of the husband of di Mauro who was unable to do so because he was absent from the town busy working.....


Now I can’t quite catch all the words after lavoro but I think I’m reading the word “mortiette”? It seems to be saying that he was busy in business with the dead, but that can’t be it, unless he was some sort of undertaker or something. Maybe someone else will take a look so that you have more information about the husband, darkerhorse. I'll come back to it later as sometimes when I come back and look at document with fresh eyes I can read it more clearly.

Angela

I've just clicked. I misread a word. It is "mestiere" not "mortiette". Therefore, the clerk has written that the father of the child was unable to register the birth because he was absent from the town, engaged in business affairs that related to his aforementioned profession i.e. a campagnolo - farmer.

Angela

[erudita74]

Angela
I was just going to tell you it says Il suo mestiere but I can't decipher the next word

[AngelaGrace56]

Angela
I was just going to tell you it says Il suo mestiere but I can't decipher the next word

Hi there

Yes, that had me stumped too. I believe it is "sopraspiegato". I think it is Italian. I know mum and dad in dialect use to say something that sounded like "shpaga" to mean "explain", so in this case it "sopraspiegato" means "explained above".

Angela

[erudita74]

Angela
I was just going to tell you it says Il suo mestiere but I can't decipher the next word

Hi there

Yes, that had me stumped too. I believe it is "sopraspiegato". I think it is Italian. I know mum and dad in dialect use to say something that sounded like "shpaga" to mean "explain", so in this case it "sopraspiegato" means "explained above".

Angela

Angela

I don't see those letters at all. I see that last word ending in espresso preceded by possibly two other letters.

[AngelaGrace56]

Angela
I was just going to tell you it says Il suo mestiere but I can't decipher the next word

Hi there

Yes, that had me stumped too. I believe it is "sopraspiegato". I think it is Italian. I know mum and dad in dialect use to say something that sounded like "shpaga" to mean "explain", so in this case it "sopraspiegato" means "explained above".

Angela

Angela

I don't see those letters at all. I see that last word ending in espresso preceded by possibly two other letters.

Okay. I agree. I'm seeing "suespresso" which doesn't seem to be a word. I was concentrating on the word mestiere and so I flicked over a couple of pages to see if I could read it more clearly elsewhere, and I think what I must of done was see "sopraspiegato" before the word "mestiere" without returning to the record being translated. It's a mystery. Maybe someone else will be able to chime in.



Edit to Add:

I think I've worked it out. It is two words "sue spresso" so it reads ... he was engaged in business affairs related to his aforementioned profession."


And another edit: The interesting thing is, that whether the word was "sopraspiegato" or two words "sue spresso" it still basically means the same thing. I tend to wonder if it was just another clerical error and was suppose to read "sopraspiegato" like the other records???

Angela

[erudita74]

In this one year of birth records, most of the fathers were absent from the town and did not report the births. I also see sopra enunciato, sopra detto, sopra menzionato. I can't find "sue spresso," although I agree that's what the spelling looks like in the records. The only thing I found online is "sue presso" but I do see an s before the p. I also can't find an English translation for this. So while I don't think the official wrote any of these in error, I think the meanings are basically the same. I also know that "espresso" is one of the past forms of the verb esprimere- "to express or state." I would love for a native Italian speaker to chime in on this one.

[cedrone]

Yes, it is 'suespresso' , one word composed of su = above and espresso, past participle of esprimere = to express, to say.
So the meaning is what you said, aforementioned.
Same meaning in the following line for 'surriferito'.
It seems the clerk liked to use these burocratic words.

[erudita74]

Thanks so much for clarifying this for us, cedrone. Glad we were on the right track.
Erudita