Visiting comuni in Messina

[mjclayton1]

Hello, Forum-

I'm traveling to Italy/Sicily in August. I will only have one (1!) day - actually, parts of two days - in Sicilia to try and make some connections at local cimiteri and (doubtful) Anigrafes, etc. I'll be in Sicilia the 3rd-4th week of August. I need recommendations as to what I can possibly accomplish during that time. I need to be efficient...

I have two town targets:

1. Saponara
2. Santa Lucia del Mela

I have cross connections between these two comuni.

My research indicates that my great-parents (and others) were tied to the cemetery and church in Saponara (Parish of San Nicolo - Giuseppe Mazza's baptism in 1862) and Santa Lucia del Mela (Parish of Santa Maria Annunziata - Maria Giordano's baptism in 1863). Can anyone help me as to how to access these places? Google Earth shows them up in the hills and I think driving/parking may be a significant challenge for me (I may need to rent a driver for the day - would be expensive). Or any other suggestions???

Also, as to Santa Lucia del Mela, I have various records that show that the residence for the family was on "Via Gualtiere" (no number given). Any suggestions there?

Thanks in advance for any and all feedback...

Mark

[erudita74]

As to the anagrafe offices, Mark, I strongly suggest you contact these offices in advance, and communicate in an email, the info for which you are searching. Even about municipal or town cemeteries. The caretaker may be housed in the municipal bldg. Also the town offices have limited hours of operation during the week. What I've found online may or may not be accurate:

For Santa Lucia del Mela, I see Monday and Thurs 9-1, and 4-7:30. Tues, Wed, and Friday, I see 9-1.

https://www.paginegialle.it/santa-lucia ... ia-mela_15

Also the street name may have changed over time, so you should confirm whether it has or not with someone at the municipal bldg in the town.

Santa Lucia del Mela
Uffici - Via Pietro Nenni, 2

E-Mail: anagrafe@comune.santaluciadelmela.me.it

I don’t see a Pro Loco organization specifically listed for either town, but I thought that such an organization might be useful to you. I believe it is comprised of volunteers in various towns and deals with the tourist industry. A native Italian or Sicilian can probably tell you more about this type of organization.


For Saponara:

E-Mail: area.amministrativa@comune.saponara.me.it

Piazza Matrice

9-1 Mon, Tues, Fri

Thurs: 9-1; 3:15-6

I believe a lot of locals are on holiday in the month of August, but you may find locals in the towns who are willing to be of assistance to you.

Good luck.
Erudita

[mjclayton1]

Thanks very much for this, Erudita. I know I have precious little time to spend while there, but will try and digest it and see where it takes me.

Mark

[p.s. - I hope you're doing well!]

[erudita74]

Hi Mark
All's well with us. Just been busy helping with our young grandkids who live nearby, and with my own genealogy research and writing.

I'm sure you also know this, but a lot of parishes have priests that administer to more than one parish. So the priests may not be at the parishes when you visit the churches in these towns. I don't know if this will in any way affect your plans, but I'm mentioning it in case, since you mentioned burials in church cemeteries.

We've only been to Sicily once, but from a cruise that stopped at the port of Messina. We took a train and then a bus up a long winding road to Taormina, which was way up high. Every time the bus was to go around a curve on the road, the driver had to honk his horn to notify vehicles coming in the other direction down the hill, as the bus needed the two lanes to maneuver around the curves. Unfortunately, we've never been to our ancestral towns anywhere in Sicily, or in southern Italy, even though I've been to Italy three times and my husband twice.

We tried to tour a cemetery when we were in Cagliari in Sardinia, but it was closed for siesta! I was so disappointed, but we didn't have enough time to go back at the time it was re-opening.

Anyway, I hope you have a great vacation and great success. Hopefully you'll update us about your trip, when you get back.

Erudita

[cedrone]

Cemeteries at present are cared by the civil authority (comune), not by the church, at least here in Northern Italy they are open during the day, exact times are shown at the entrance, but in general there is no personnel.

[mjclayton1]

Thanks for that added tidbit of info, cedrone...

After chewing on some/all of this, I guess I need to fine-tune my approach (and questions) here. Based on my own long-existing research, I already have Atti di Nascita for all four (4) of my 2x great-grandparents (all four born in the 1830's). That is to say, I (first) have the birth records of each of my great-grandparents:

great-grandfather

Giuseppe Mazza (b: 20 Oct. 1862, Saponara; d: 25 Jan 1938, Hamilton Ont. Canada)

great-grandmother

Maria Giordano (b: 12 Nov. 1863, Santa Lucia del Mela; d: 31 May 1952, Hamilton Ont. Canada)

And here are the 2x great-grandparents:

2x great-grandfather No. 1

Domenico Mazza (b: 13 Aug 1830, Saponara; d: UNKNOWN (after 1900)

2x great-grandmother No. 1

Angela Ruggeri (b: 7 Nov 1832, Saponara; d: UNKNOWN (after 1900)


2x great-grandfather No. 2

Antonino Giordano (b: 11 Mar 1836, Saponara; d: UNKNOWN (after 1894)

2x great-grandmother No. 2

Antonia Trifiro (b: 20 Feb 1837, Santa Lucia del Mela; d: UNKNOWN (after 1894)

So... having said all of that, my goals are several:

First, to try and find the death records of each of the four 2x great-grandparents (note: I have been unable to ascertain if any of them also emigrated to the U.S. and then Canada). Again, all appear to have lived beyond 1894...

Second, I have Atti di Morti for 7 of the 8 parents of the 2x great-grandparents noted above (i.e., the 3x great-grandparents). The dates of death for each range from 1852 to 1885. The lone death record that I can't find is after 1861. The Mazza-Ruggeri 3x's all died in Saponara and the Giordano-Trifiro 3x's all died in Santa Lucia del Mela (the lone missing 3x - Flavia Venuto - being born about 1809 and living past 1861). Hence, you can now easily surmise why I'm trying to split my time between these two towns...

How would I go about asking for the birth records for each of those 3x's? Especially given the fact that they seemingly preceded Napoleonic records and therefore may fall to the church/parish? As far as I can tell, the birth-date ranges for the seven (7) ancestors are from 1791-1808.

Am I biting off too much here?

To be clear, I also have death records for nine (9) out of the sixteen (16) 4x great-grandparents (I have all 16 names), so I know that I've had a good run in terms of historical records for these two comuni.

Thanks in advance for any additional feedback. I understand that I may need to temper my expectations. I'm just looking for more focus and figured the helpers here would be the (very) best at giving me that particular advice.

Mark

[mjclayton1]

Someone recently posted to this subject, but it appears the post was in the data that was, unfortunately, recently lost (Aug 14- Sept 6). I returned from Italy/Sicily towards the end of August and last week tried to respond several times to the post, but each time I could not log in. I had no idea the post would be lost for good! Otherwise, I would've screen-shot it...

If that person would like to re-post I would gladly respond. My initial reaction was that we are taking about similar ancestors (similar ancestral line), but a further dialog would certainly help flesh that possibility out.

Thanks.
Mark