Birth Acts ??

[Emmy]

Today I found 2 of my ancestors birth acts.
One is of a grandmother and the 2nd is the grandmother's sister.
The dates, father's name, mother's name, ages etc all match.
Near the beginning of the birth act where it gives the full name of the father of the child, then it says 'figlio di ' then gives the first name of a person (which I think is the first name of the 'grandfather' of the child who has been born') Perhaps I could be wrong thinking this???

This is where the problem occurs because that name is not the same on both birth acts - one says 'grandfather's' name is 'Giuseppe' and on the other it says its 'Pietro'

The only other thought I had was - As it was not the same person who was filling in the information on the documents could 'figlio di' be referring to their father?
I'm almost 100 percent sure these birth act are for two sisters.
Be grateful for any suggestions.
Emmy

[AnotherCitizenToBe]

Today I found 2 of my ancestors birth acts.
One is of a grandmother and the 2nd is the grandmother's sister.
The dates, father's name, mother's name, ages etc all match.
Near the beginning of the birth act where it gives the full name of the father of the child, then it says 'figlio di ????' (which I think is the first name of the 'grandfather' of the child who has been born') Perhaps I could be wrong thinking this???

This is where the problem occurs because that name is not the same on both birth acts - one says 'grandfather's' name is 'Giuseppe' and on the other it says its 'Pietro'

The only other thought I had was - As it was not the same person who was filling in the information on the documents could 'figlio di' be referring to their father?
I'm almost 100 percent sure these birth act are for two sisters.
Be grateful for any suggestions.
Emmy

"Figlio di" translates as "Son of". Check it out at wordreference.com - an incredibly useful site by the way.

[Emmy]

Many thanks for your reply but what I really wanted to know was, not the translation of 'figlio di' but to which person in the birth act that 'figlio di' was referring to.
Sorry if I didnt explain my request properly
but thank you very much for replying
Emmy

[liviomoreno]

Many thanks for your reply but what I really wanted to know was, not the translation of 'figlio di' but to which person in the birth act that 'figlio di' was referring to.
Sorry if I didnt explain my request properly
but thank you very much for replying
Emmy

The person is the one written before "figlio di".
If you post a picture of the documents I might be more precise.

[AnotherCitizenToBe]

Many thanks for your reply but what I really wanted to know was, not the translation of 'figlio di' but to which person in the birth act that 'figlio di' was referring to.
Sorry if I didnt explain my request properly
but thank you very much for replying
Emmy

I would presume the person listed immediatly before/above. So, the "full name of the father of the child" (let's say "John Smith"), son of "James Smith" or "James Smith and Mary Jones" would indicate that James (and Mary) are the parents of John who is in turn the father of the newborn child. Hence "son of" refers to the grandparent(s) of the newborn, James (and Mary).

Based on what you have described, that is my interpretation.

[Emmy]

Thanks Livio and A.C.ToBe
I thought it would be the grandfather's name too but its the fact that the Grandfather's name was different on each of the birth acts that's puzzling me.
Unfortunaley I cant post an image of this because the photographs I took were not good. I did copy most of the writing down .
This is the part that's causing me confusion.

"In the year of 1864 on the 13th February at 4 pm avanti di noi, Si? Panetta sindaco? ud officiale dello stato civile di Villa Latina provincia di Terra di Lavora e comparso Domenico Valerio ..(space left here)...........figlio di Giuseppe...(Space left here) ..............di anni25"

On the 2nd birth act the baby was born in April 1865 (The name of the 'officiale' was different) the father's and mother's ages etc. fits in perfectly.
The thing that puzzles me is the fact that on the second birth act the name of the grandfather is 'Pietro' and as I said I'm almost positive these children are sisters.

Where it states Villa Latina provincia di Terra di Lavora does this translate as Villa Latina in the Province of Terra di Lavora
This may sound silly but I thought these comunes were in the province of Frosinone - I know I could be way off track here
Emmy

[Biff83]

Where it states Villa Latina provincia di Terra di Lavora does this translate as Villa Latina in the Province of Terra di Lavora
This may sound silly but I thought these comunes were in the province of Frosinone - I know I could be way off track here
Emmy

From wikepedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_di_Lavoro
"In the pre-Republican Italy, the Terra di Lavoro was one of the largest provinces: it comprised the current province of Caserta, the southern part of today's provinces of Latina and Frosinone, the countryside of Nola of the province of Naples, and the Sannio (provinces of Benevento, Campobasso and Isernia)."

Biff

[Emmy]

Thanks for the explanation Biff
Emmy

[daveferro]

While reading the WWII books about the towns in the area, I came across this history at http://www.italyworldclub.com/lazio/fro ... index.html :

Province of Frosinone
Region Lazio, Italy
The Province of Frosinone was established by Royal Decree on 6 December 1926 with territories belonging to Lazio and Campania. At the same time the Province of Latina (originally called Littoria) was also established. The Campania areas were the left valley of the Liri-Garigliano river, the district of Sora, the Comino valley, the district of Cassino, the
Gulf of Formia and Gaeta, the Pontine isles, which until then had been for centuries included in the Province called Terra di Lavoro, of the Kingdom of Naples (or of the Two Sicilies).

History:
The territory of the Province has not a consistent cultural or historical unity, since the areas previously included in the State of the Church were always "satellites", so to say, of the city of Rome, while the Southern areas had, geografically and historically, deep connections to Abruzzo, Molise and Campania. In the field of genealogy research, for the areas previously belonging to the state of the church no Civil Records were kept until well after the annexation to the kingdom of Italy, whereas for the areas included in the Terra di Lavoro of the Kingdom of Naples the Books of Civil Records from 1809 to 1865 are kept in the original province archive of Caserta (= the old Terra di Lavoro) while the records from 1866 to 1900 are kept in the Provincial Archive of Frosinone. (emphasis mine)

Civil Records in the Archive of Frosinone: From 1866 to 1899: Ausonia, Aquino, Campoli Appeninico, Castelnuovo Parano, Coreno Ausonio, Fontechiari, Gallinaro, Galluccio (now Province of Caserta), Isola Liri, Mignano Monte Lungo (now Province of Caserta), Pontecorvo, Poste Fibreno, Presenzano (now Province of Caserta), Rocca d'Evandro (now Province of Caserta), Sant'Elia Fiumerapido, San Giorgio, Sora, San Pietro Infine, Vallerotonda, Vallerotonda Cardito, Vallerotonda Valvori, Vicalvi, Villa Santa Lucia. From 1809 to 1865: Acquafondata, Aquino, Ausonia. From 1862 to 1944: Cervaro From 1871 to 1899: San Germano Fino From 1861 to 1899: Cassino

Seems like you will have to send to two different places to get records, Caserta from 1809-1865 and Frosinone for 1866-1899.

Dave

[Emmy]

Many thanks for that information Dave
Oddly enough I just received a reply from the Archivio Di Stato Frosinone today regarding my grandparents Marriage document. A while ago (before I wrote to the priest) I had posted a request to them to see if they could find my grandparents' marriage certifcate. I had given them 2 dates 1879/1883.
The reply said they had searched records between 1860 to 1899 and found no trace of a marriage document matching up with the names I had given.
So It seems in this instance the Church surely had never passed on the record of my grandparents marriage to the 'comune'
(Yet it is recorded on their their birth Acts as the marriage being registered in Caserta)
(I think you will probably remember me posting that I did finally receive a copy of their marriage document from a priest in Sant'Elia F.)
Emmy

[Italysearcher]

Emmy,
I will be doing some research in Villa Latina in the next week or so. Send me the details and I will do a look up in the original records for you while I am there.
Ann

[carmenvalenziano]

Hello,

I have a Maria Panetta marrying Pietro Alfredo Valerio on December 29, 1907, in Villa Latina, Frosinone, Italia. I wrote to Villa Latina for their marriage certificate last year, but never received a reply. I am trying to find out their parents' names.

Thank you.

Carmen