Dual Citizenship

[sparks59]

Hi All,

I am a US citizen looking into the possibility of obtaining dual citizenship (Italy). According to the Italian Consulate, a preliminary review of my documentation suggests that I might be eligible. However, I need to obtain birth certificates for each of my grandparents, and a copy of their marriage certificate. I was wondering if anybody out there could kindly confirm if there might be such a record available anywhere; and, if so, how would I go about getting authenticated copies sent to me (address of the Civil Registrar, costs involved, etc.)? I believe these documents must also be translated into English ... can I do this myself, or must it be prepared a specific way?

Background Information:

Grandfather = FRANCESCO GARGANO, born December 24, 1886 in Sicily;
died March 9, 1966 Utica, NY. As far as we know, he never naturalized in the US. His father's (my great-grandfather's) name was ROSARIO GARGANO, also of Sicily.

Grandmother = CATERINA SPECIALE, born September 14, 1889; died Utica, NY January 22, 1969. According to records, she arrived at Ellis Island, NY on November 6, 1913 aboard the Prinzess Irene, which sailed from Palermo, Sicily. As far as we know, she never naturalized in the US. Her mother's (my great-grandmother's) name was PAOLA SPARACINO, also of Sicily (Bagheria?)

We only have the year 1907, in terms of a possible marriage date ... no month or day - most likely in Sicily.

My 91-year-old mother - Francesco's and Caterina's daughter - is still alive and well ... would it be easier for her to obtain dual citizenship first, and then myself?

I would appreciate any insight or leads that would help me get closer to my goal.

My sincerest thanks, grazie tante,

sparks59

[Benito512]

Ciao Sparks,

I think you can begin your research for the birth and marriage certificates of your nonni by identifying the exact commune in Sicilia in which they were born and married. Try this site: The Sicilian Provinces.

After you identify the commune in which their births and marriage occurred, you can write to them requesting the documents you need. I believe they are called "certificato di estratto di nascita" for birth and "estratto di matrimonio," but perhaps a veteran member of this site can confirm this.

Next, unless your consulate requires something different from mine (Chicago), the Italian certificates do not need to be translated into English. Rather, the English certificates--the death certificates of your nonni--need to be translated into Italian as do the birth certifcate of your mamma, the marriage license and certificate of your parents, and your birth certificate. (If you are married and have children, you may have to include those as well. Check your consulate's website for specifics.)

If you need someone to translate your documents from English into Italian, I would highly recommend Gabriella Bozza Einaga, who is very professional and kind and offers economic prices. Gabriella Bozza Einaga

Finally, if my math is correct, your mamma was born in the USA, so she was born with American citizenship, and if her parents never naturalized or if her father naturalized after her birth, she was born with the right to inherit Italian citizenship.

I don't think you can use her as your ascendant from whom you will inherit Italian citizenship because she would first need to do so. Therefore, you will trace your right to Italian citizenship through your grandfather.

Be advised, also, that you will need to obtain a record that indicates that your grandparents never naturalized. Again, I will defer to a veteran member of this forum to advise you about this.

I wish you much luck!

Benito

[mler]

Actually, you must trace your citizenship through a parent. Citizenship is transferred one generation at a time. Thus, your mother obtained citizenship through her father; you obtain citizenship through her.

This does not mean, however, that your mother must also apply for citizenship. If she chooses not to do so, she completes a "Declaration of Living Ascendant" form, which is available on most of the consulates' webpages. You, then establish with documents that your grandfather was still an Italian citizen when your mother was born, and your mother had not renounced this citizenship when you were born.

Some consulates do not require documents from the non-Italian line, so it may not be necessary to obtain documents for your grandmother (with the exception of the marriage certificate, of course). Check with your consulate on their requirements.

You should write to your grandfather's comune to obtain his Italian documents. You may want to check www.italiancitizenship.freeforums.org
In the template section is a sample of a letter (written in Italian) that you can use. Also in this section are templates of translations of several U.S.-issued documents.

[sparks59]

Ciao Tutti,

Thank you, thank you, thank you ... Benito and mler!

WOW - I did not expect such quick and informative responses. The translation part now makes more sense ... our consulate is based in Houston, but seems to follow more or less the requirements of Chicago's.

I have been trying to read some of the past threads in this forum, in search of more helpful hints, and found one from a couple of years ago that gives the address for the Ufficio di Stato Civile in Palermo. Since we think my grandparents were from Bagheria, but are not 100% sure, could we begin here ... our logic being that Palermo is the "capital" of Sicily? Or do we need to write to the corresponding office in Bagheria? (By the way, I cannot yet find an address for Bagheria's Ufficio di Stato Civile.)

In any event, we will continue our efforts. I wish my Italian were better, but ...

Grazie tante da cuore.

sparks59

[Benito512]

Ciao Sparks,

Try this site for the information you seek in regard to Bagheria: Bagheria

The navigation menu is located on the left of your screen.

Buona fortuna,

Benito

[PeterTimber]

Yopu might be better off going to www.nonsolocap.it and put in Bagheria on top, click cerca and when the Bagheria data comes up click on BAGHERIA (in blue) for ther adminstrative website with the Municipio address for any document requests down about halfway. Oftimes there is a website to the right for more culturalinformation about Bagheria as well. =Peter=

[Steverino3006]

Is your father not Italian?

What is your birthdate? If before a magic date, (January 1, 1948?) I think you do not have Italian citizenship throught your mother.

[sparks59]

Thanks, Peter, for the Bagheria advice ... I will look into it.

I was born after 1948, Steverino, so I think I should be "safe" in this regard ... but thanks for the advice anyway.

Have a nice weekend everybody, regards,
sparks59

[msecc]

I've have seen the following posted as needed for dual citizenship, can someone explain further what this is?

Letter of Italian Citizenship from the Commune of the Italian Relative

Is this different than an Italian birth certificate? How does one request this if needed? If possible, quick responses requested as I have someone working on getting a long form Italian birth certificate of my GGF.

Many thanks,
Mike

[PeterTimber]

Suanj explained this in an earlier inquiry that only an Italian citizen resident in italy can obtain certificate of Italian citizenship and anybody out of Italy does not need to present such document. =Peter=

[msecc]

Peter,
Thank you for the quick response and clarification. All I need from Italy is the long form birth certified birth certificate.
Mike

[Darpino]

sparks, do you know where they were born..write straight to the town hall of the village asking for them. give them name and dates of birth..

[Donald66]

I have a question on surnames:

My grandfather's surname is Angotti on his birth certificate.
On his marriage license and death certificate it's spelt Angotto.
On my father's birth certificate it's spelt Angotto.
My father's name is spelt Angotto as well on his birth certificate.
On my birth certificate, both my father and I have the surname Angotta!

Is this a problem for dual citizenship?

FYI: both my grandfather and father are deceased.

[jwazevedo]

You'll want to check with your consulate. Generally, the surnames have to match up. You will likely have to go through the process of amending the American records with a court order. That process has been discussed a few times in this forum, and you can see what others have done by searching the forum. Good luck!

Best,
Jerry

[PeterTimber]

Dear Msecc obtaining the longform birth record (estratto di nascita) should be in the Plurilingue format to make sure it meets with consular requirements or the particular requirement ifthe consular officer assessing your application. Insofar as the mispelling of the last name ending in a or o, I would see if your consular office will accept distinctions before going thru procedures to correct or amend your last name...all they can say is Yes or No but you never know unless you try. =Peter=