Antonette Massanelli Mystery Grows

[suanj]

Hi everyone.

I apologize for having duplicate threads. I guess I didn't realize that I should have use the old thread instead of creating a new one.

I am understanding that you are not convinced that Rosa's surname was Esposito. I based that on the fact that Giovannina was accompanying her and the ages matched, as well as the fact that Antonietta was on the same manifest. I had already known about her sister, so I assumed it was the proper person.

yes Antonietta was on the same manifest, but Giovannina is listed with Esposito surname and not Missanelli... but married with name of Giovannina Missanelli(in wrong spell)..

[suanj]

Chris, Antonietta Missanelli was born the 10 may 1888 in Anzi..
Rosa Missanelli was 39 old at birthchild, so she was born abt in 1849... here the original document:
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/9302/m ... ibirth.jpg
suanj

[chrisdamato]

Ok, I have some work to do in order to get the correct story of Antonietta and Rosa.

The reason I believed Rosa Massanelli was born Esposito was due to the fact that I had Rose Massanelli's death certificate and I knew her age at the time of her death. After calculating the year of birth based on that, I found the ship manifest for Antonietta, Giovannina, and Rosa. The age matched so I assumed that it was the same person. Since she was Massanelli at her death, I expected that Esposito was her birth name.

Maybe it's all just a crazy coincidence?

As I stated in the other thread, my grandmother Rose (Antonietta's daughter) had always told us that her mother was a Massanelli. She also said that her mother died when she was very young. She remembered it being due to influenza, but that was in 1918 and I found her on the 1920 census. Rose's father Aniello married two more times after Antonietta's death.

[suanj]

yes Chris, I understand...
you have a Rosa Massanelli death certificate and she was the mother of YOUR Antonietta; it is ok; I understand abt that;
but it was found a ship's manifest of a Antonietta Missonello from Anzi, born in 1888; in travel with Rosa Esposito and Giovanna daughter...
you believe that Rosa Esposito was your Rosa Massanelli, because this Rosa Esposito had a daughter Giovanna; and you believe that Antonietta Missonello from Anzi was YOUR Antonietta and so, by ship's manifest, the daughter of Rosa Esposito....
Instead:
by birth certificate Antonietta Missanelli born in Anzi , this Antonietta had the surname of mother and the child was no recognized by natural father, unknown...

Now:
-because no marriage record in Anzi of a Rosa Missanelli( Missanelli= maiden name), from 1888 to 1894 (I checked other 2 years)
-because Rosa Missanelli mother of Antonietta was 39 old in 1888, she born abt in 1849 instead Rosa Esposito was born abt 1845;
-Rosa Massenelli on censuses result born abt in 1845 as Rosa Esposito
-nobodi Giovanna/Giovannina MISSANELLI result born in Anzi from 1873 to 1879
- as a well in 1877 nobody Giovanna/Giovannina Esposito was born in Anzi
-and because YOUR Giovannina married with name of Giovannina Massenelli

I am no sure to 100% that the ship's manifest is abt your Antonietta; and if yes, maybe in this case, Rosa married after 1888 in other Commune; what I cannot explain me is:

- why Giovanna is in travel with mother Rosa Esposito and Antonietta is no under Rosa and Giovanna name on the ship's manifest... if also giovannina was Missanelli as in marriage record???

so the mystery is very deep....
suanj

[chrisdamato]

One of the reasons why I thought Rosa Esposito and Rosa Missanelli are the same person is because the 1900 census indicates that Rosa, Antonette, and Johnnah (Giovannina) all arrived in America in 1892. I found Antonietta Missanelli on the manifest for that year and observed Rosa Esposito with daughter Giovanna on the same manifest, so I thought it was probably the mother and sister. Maybe I need to look at 1892 immigration records to see if Rosa and Giovanna came over on a different ship under the name Massanelli???

[suanj]

One of the reasons why I thought Rosa Esposito and Rosa Missanelli are the same person is because the 1900 census indicates that Rosa, Antonette, and Johnnah (Giovannina) all arrived in America in 1892. I found Antonietta Missanelli on the manifest for that year and observed Rosa Esposito with daughter Giovanna on the same manifest, so I thought it was probably the mother and sister. Maybe I need to look at 1892 immigration records to see if Rosa and Giovanna came over on a different ship under the name Massanelli???

Dear Chris,
I understand you, but the age of Rosa Esposito matching not with age declared of Rosa Missanelli in Antonietta Missanelli birth... abt 4/5 years of difference..
moreover the Giovannina surname on the ship's manifest; I searched in Anzi births, by Esposito surname and nobody Giovannina... I searched in other town's civil records available, where the surname Missanelli was present in this period time and no luck..

I searched, also, in Anzi marriages before of Giovannina birthyear and nobody Esposito married at Missanelli from 1876 back 1873, 1872 lacking, and 1871 also nobody married ...

I searched the transcription in Anzi civil records of Giovannina Missanelli marriage and also I no found....

I found another Rosa Missanelli born abt 1854/5 travelling in USA in 1889 july with 2 sons, but the age have a difference of 5 years abt, from Rosa Missanelli age in in Antonietta Missanelli birth...
I found also a Rosa Misaniello( on castlegarden.org and wrote as Rosa Rosa Masinsello on ancestry.com) coming from Melfi, travelling alone in 13 May 1890...

because it are some discrepancies in this search, and, by my own idea of genealogy, it is impossible to say that a finding is certain, without checking all data ....

... also for bad luck, now that you know the Antonietta Missanelli birthdate and birthplace, you have no possibilities in USA of to check it by documents...
the only clue was the marriage certificate at Aniello Fernandes, but it result married at Antonietta Aragusa(?)...

so, almost for me, Antonietta remaining a mystery....
however in my free time I wish search again...
all the best,
suanj

[chrisdamato]

Two things I now need to do. First, I will get Aniello Fernandez Antonetta Aragusa marriage certificate. Then I will get Antonietta marriage to Jerry Galoppa marriage certificate. That may yield some better information.

One thing I was pondering last night. There must be a mistake with the age of Rosa Missanelli either on Antonietta's birth record or on the 1900 census because on Rosa Massanelli's death certificate it lists her as 72 years old in January 1922, which puts her birth about 1849. The 1900 census lists her birth as Nov 1846, and the Esposito manifest lists her as 46 years old in 1892, which puts her birth in 1846.

[suanj]

yes the age of Rosa Missanelli a puzzle...
suanj

[chrisdamato]

Just another bit of information for you all to ponder. On Rose Massanelli's death certificate and all of her census records, she is listed as a widow. If that is the case, did she marry someone with the same last name? That was common back then. Since my records indicate that she came over to America in 1892 or 1893 and the 1900 census says she is a widow, when and where did this marriage take place????

[suanj]

Chris, if she was married, Giovannina had father surname.... instead was Missanelli also; you think that was married at a man with Missanelli surname also? and in this case who is Rosa Esposito? maybe she declared that was widow and instead was unmarried... the daughters have Missanelli surname, and on Antonietta birth act, Rosa is Missanelli, maiden name....
suanj

[chrisdamato]

Suanj,

I'm just trying to think of all possibilities. I have several ancestors that married 1st or 2nd cousins with same surname. Maybe that is the case here? I'm not quite sure if Rose Massanelli and Rose Esposito are the same person. However, there seems to be enough evidence from the census records to indicate that she was married at one point in time.

According to my records, Rose had 3 daughters. Maria born in 1872, Giovannina born in 1877, and Antonietta in 1888. Why so many years between Giovannina and Antonietta. Was Antonietta a "surprise" and father/husband ran off? Perhaps we will never solve this.

[chrisdamato]

Is there a way to find records prior to 1861? Rose Massanelli's mother is Rosa LaGrotta. Maybe that will help????

[suanj]

Suanj,

I'm just trying to think of all possibilities. I have several ancestors that married 1st or 2nd cousins with same surname. Maybe that is the case here? I'm not quite sure if Rose Massanelli and Rose Esposito are the same person. However, there seems to be enough evidence from the census records to indicate that she was married at one point in time.

According to my records, Rose had 3 daughters. Maria born in 1872, Giovannina born in 1877, and Antonietta in 1888. Why so many years between Giovannina and Antonietta. Was Antonietta a "surprise" and father/husband ran off? Perhaps we will never solve this.

I searched in 1870-1871-1872-1873 Anzi births abt Maria( by Missanelli and Esposito surname) but only 1 Maria Celestina Esposito daughter of Michele Esposito and Rosa Dragonetti born in 1872... some line in 1871 births index is off...
suanj

[chrisdamato]

How about prior to 1861? Do I need to go directly to the town to request records? I can't find the photographic records of all the books before that year.

[suanj]

by ancestry.com:
Potenza, Basilicata, Italy, Civil Registration Records, 1861-1938 (in Italian)

before of 1861, by Mormon's microfilms normally for this area it are the civil records from 1809 to 1910