Help finding immigration record and 1915 and 1920 censuses

[lyn1982]

I wonder if he even gave fake names for his parents. His wife had siblings Domenico and Maria, so maybe those were just the first 2 names he thought of. Perhaps the Giuseppe Albi record in Rome 1896 with unknown parents is him then, even though birthdate doesn't match any records of his. Maybe he didn't want anyone to know he was abandoned. Though it's a bit odd to keep a simular surname if one is going to make up fake info for everything else.

[suanj]

and abt this record… what you think?
By Frosinone archive… foundling, born from unknown parents in Rome on 18 Mar 1896, carpenter


Giuseppe
n.n.
n.n.
19/03/1896
Roma
Alvito
Sora
5579
falegname
si
si

and here the Birth record... http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... 9.jpg.html
the fact that he said Domenico and Mary Paris as parents don't means that is true… I make many search that the foundling immigrated in USA , stated the names of couple who raised…
suanj

[lyn1982]

Thank you. I've seen this record before, but as the birthdate is so different I can't tell. Plus it's odd the surname change from Albi to Abbo. Though perhaps this could explain why he didn't seem to stick with a surname until many years in the US. However, even if Domenico and Mary aren't his parents and are just a couple who raised him, wouldn't he have then taken their surname? He did follow Italian naming traditions too and name his eldest daughter Mary and eldest son Domenico. Also the only thing my family seems to know about him is that he had a brother who stayed in Italy. I'd think if he was a foundling he wouldn't have siblings, but I guess it could be an adopted brother. I will have to research this Giuseppe Albi more, perhaps he could be ruled out if there is a death record for him in Rome. If it's him though and the military records have a correct DOB, then why would he later give a fake DOB? Do foundlings typically do this?

[suanj]

The surname is Abbi on the birthrecord and the military drafting was in Frosinone province… because no many difficulties in the search the only explanation could be that some info, some basic info are wrong..
Or he changed his name in USA… who know…
suanj

[lyn1982]

The surname is Abbi on the birthrecord and the military drafting was in Frosinone province… because no many difficulties in the search the only explanation could be that some info, some basic info are wrong..
Or he changed his name in USA… who know…
suanj

Thanks for replying again,

Do foundlings typically give incorrect birth dates? If he knew his birthdate for the military records, then surely he had to intentionally be giving fake birthdates later on, correct? If a name change is the only other option, then would parents first names at least likely be correct on record? I'm not sure what I should be doing next. If I should just assume the Giuseppe Albi is him based on fact he's so hard to find, or if I should be trying to find any Joseph's born to Domenico's and Mary, which would be a long tedious search of looking through birth indexes for each year (cause the decade ones seem to be missing some I've noticed).

I've also tried to find Joseph's parentage by using DNA matching, but it seems all my 4th cousin or closer matches are on my maternal side, or on my fathers paternal side, with a few 4th cousins from Joseph's wife Josephine Congelosi's side.

The only matches I have that could possibly connect to his line are about a dozen 4th cousin matches that all decend from different children of a couple born in the 1890s. These matches match none of my other cousins. In fact I seem to share DNA with a maternal cousin in the same position they match me on yet none of them are shared matches with him which to me implies these are paternal matches.

The wife of this couple was adopted, but it seems my matches are on the husband's line, given I seem to have other matches with his surname that match me in the same position on my dna. All these matches match me between 20-40cms. But the bizzare thing is the husband's line was in the US from the 1850s on and where they immigrated from is Ireland, not Italy! The surname was Caldwell and when I looked I found one Caldwell who immigrated to Florence and died in Rome, but I can't find any evidence of him having had children and he died long before Joseph was born, so he'd be a grandparent or great grandparent at best. Also my fathers side other then Joseph...are all from Sicily, lived there so long that I even have the Sicily community on ancestry! On those lines everyone has been so easy to trace and I can't find any Irish surnames or anything.

Anyway, these Caldwell matches match me on chromosome 17 and 2 places on chromosome 20 on one of them being location 5,843,812 - 14,159,442 for (15.5cM/2234 SNPs. However I have a distant cousin that I traced down that matches me on Josephes line on several chromosomes, one location being chromsome 20 on location 11,508,980 - 19,449,956 (13.2cM/2260 SNPs). I wonder if this means these Caldwell matches are from her line (how odd to come from Cerda, Sicily and have a relation to Irish!) or if this means this cousin could match me on both Josephine and Joseph's lines. It is my 2nd highest match on 23andme and matches me in several locations. Seems too much of a coincidence that they would match me on both lines so perhaps the Caldwell matches are somehow related to Josephines line. Not sure if you know anything about DNA to give your input on this?

Just wondering if I should concentrate my efforts on trying to find any Joseph's in Rome born to father Domenico mother Mary (Paris?) or if I should be instead focusing on trying to research Caldwell's in Rome more. I did try to find a connection to the Caldwell who immigrated to Rome and the Caldwells who I DNA match but failed to do so, it seems the records don't go back far enough. The Caldwell who immigrated to Rome was a millionaire. I'd think if he and his wife (he married a British woman after immigrating, an Anne Mary Earle) had children there should be some evidence. This also makes me wonder if these are Joseph's grandparents, maybe he did know them and maybe that's why he lists mothers name as Mary on marriage record, rather than Maria. I did find decendents of this couple on gedmatch and I did have a match of around 10cm's to one of them, I think another matched me as well. Not sure it even means anything. If I'm related to them it would certainly explain my Irish and British DNA, since neither my mother nor father have ancestry from either of those countries nor anywhere near them. However on the gedmatches it seems the kits were linked to the couple but didn't seem to link to any later ancestors. I can't seem to find names of children they had to persure this further.

[lyn1982]

I looked at the records again to go look at the record for the Giuseppe Albi you mentioned. I figured out how to transfer the file into open office for free so I could organize the file. I organized by Giuseppe and looked at Giuseppe's with father Domenico. I found the oddest record. Note that the mother's name is Maria Simone, which is the exact same name that Thomas Abballe gave as his mothers name on his SS card App. The surname however, is completely different. Could this actually be my Giuseppe? Could the surname have been changed this much? From Sarrecchia to Abbo! Such a change would have had to have surely been intentional. Then though it makes no sense for Thomas to have the Abballe name, if he's a brother. (Thomas's 1903 military record, his mothers surname does not match Simone nor Samori though, it seems at least both Thomas and Giuseppe did not know their mothers correct surname or surnames.) What do you think?

[lyn1982]

There is also a Giuseppe Carbone with father Domenico and mother Maria Giulani. The thing that makes me wonder if this would could be mine is that draft record you found of a Giuseppe Bone. Gah! Could this be my Giuseppe, or is the one with the father Domenico Sarrecchia and mother Maria Simone more likely? Or are neither. No idea how to determine. Immigration records seem to be failing me though I haven't yet searched for them extensively. I quick search of Giuseppe Sarrecchia I found this one, but I don't know if it's the same one in records. They are going to an uncle whos surname isn't their mothers surname or close, so it may be different. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JJKG-H6R I'll search for Giuseppe Carbone or Bone and see if I can find anything. Or maybe looking closely at all Giuseppe's in 1915 census living in Lyons might work. Obituary does say my Giuseppe lived there for 2 years after immigrating in 1913. Tho he could have moved to Niagara before the census was taken.

[lyn1982]

Suanj, Do you know what kind of documents they were required to show for these Frosinone draft records?

[suanj]

I believe that Joseph Bone was really Giuseppe Bona... Bone in Usa.. And the US records are no accurate...
The military drafting was made by the list sent from the civil records office of any Municipality in the province territory. Then, after medical check up, after some month he was in the force....if the man don' t presented because was emigrate, the emigration note was wrote in the register...
On 1920 census,I don' t found nothing, just a Joseph Balony with wife Josephine. No children. Josephine was more older.... .... It is the only records a bit probable.....
Regards,
suanj

[lyn1982]

I believe that Joseph Bone was really Giuseppe Bona... Bone in Usa.. And the US records are no accurate...
The military drafting was made by the list sent from the civil records office of any Municipality in the province territory. Then, after medical check up, after some month he was in the force....if the man don' t presented because was emigrate, the emigration note was wrote in the register...
On 1920 census,I don' t found nothing, just a Joseph Balony with wife Josephine. No children. Josephine was more older.... .... It is the only records a bit probable.....
Regards,
suanj

Thank you for the reply. I think the Josephine Bone draft can be ruled out as being mine. I found this 1930 census record that may be him if he married a Josephine : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4RM-1QL Better evidence against him being mine is that my Joseph and Josephine had a daughter Mary (Mary Anna) born in November of 1919. She should be in the census with them. Their next eldest, Dominic wasn't born until 1922 so Mary would be their only child in the 1920 census.

[lyn1982]

I believe that Joseph Bone was really Giuseppe Bona... Bone in Usa.. And the US records are no accurate...
The military drafting was made by the list sent from the civil records office of any Municipality in the province territory. Then, after medical check up, after some month he was in the force....if the man don' t presented because was emigrate, the emigration note was wrote in the register...

Since there is no note next to the Giuseppe Sarrecchia, does this then mean he didn't immigrate and thrus cannot be my Giuseppe? I thought with fathers name of Domenico and mother Maria Simone (name on Thomas's SS card Ap, but not name on any of my Giuseppe's records) that he was likely to be mine and that somewhere along the way a surname change occured. I thought perhaps born with name Sarrecchia, and took a step fathers surname, mispelling it somewhat for some reason. But if he didn't immigrate then I guess this theory is incorrect.

Do you know if Roma providence has a similar file such as the Frosinone one with the draft records?

[lyn1982]

Not seeing any Giuseppe Bona's in 10 year index in Rome. http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

[suanj]

Not seeing any Giuseppe Bona's in 10 year index in Rome. http://dl.antenati.san.beniculturali.it ... ewsIndex=0

In the old past, many towns pertaining Roma province(in effects when a Italian said Roma or Naples or Milan, means the province, some municipality in the province, not means the town, capital also of the same province), well currently are in Frosinone province and I believe also Latina province, because both are two provinces created after the WWI... so Rome… what commune in province of Roma?
mystery…
suanj

[suanj]

I believe that Joseph Bone was really Giuseppe Bona... Bone in Usa.. And the US records are no accurate...
The military drafting was made by the list sent from the civil records office of any Municipality in the province territory. Then, after medical check up, after some month he was in the force....if the man don' t presented because was emigrate, the emigration note was wrote in the register...
On 1920 census,I don' t found nothing, just a Joseph Balony with wife Josephine. No children. Josephine was more older.... .... It is the only records a bit probable.....
Regards,
suanj

Thank you for the reply. I think the Josephine Bone draft can be ruled out as being mine. I found this 1930 census record that may be him if he married a Josephine : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4RM-1QL Better evidence against him being mine is that my Joseph and Josephine had a daughter Mary (Mary Anna) born in November of 1919. She should be in the census with them. Their next eldest, Dominic wasn't born until 1922 so Mary would be their only child in the 1920 census.

Ok, thanks for the info, so they had a daughter that must be on 1920 census.. ok! You have her original Birth record? Maybe the surname is spelled differently…
suanj

[lyn1982]

I believe that Joseph Bone was really Giuseppe Bona... Bone in Usa.. And the US records are no accurate...
The military drafting was made by the list sent from the civil records office of any Municipality in the province territory. Then, after medical check up, after some month he was in the force....if the man don' t presented because was emigrate, the emigration note was wrote in the register...
On 1920 census,I don' t found nothing, just a Joseph Balony with wife Josephine. No children. Josephine was more older.... .... It is the only records a bit probable.....
Regards,
suanj

Thank you for the reply. I think the Josephine Bone draft can be ruled out as being mine. I found this 1930 census record that may be him if he married a Josephine : https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X4RM-1QL Better evidence against him being mine is that my Joseph and Josephine had a daughter Mary (Mary Anna) born in November of 1919. She should be in the census with them. Their next eldest, Dominic wasn't born until 1922 so Mary would be their only child in the 1920 census.

Ok, thanks for the info, so they had a daughter that must be on 1920 census.. ok! You have her original Birth record? Maybe the surname is spelled differently…
suanj

Thank you for the reply,

I don't have her birth cert, but her SSDI says she was born 9 NOV 1919. I looked and couldn't find her record in NYS birth index, though I found all her siblings except her youngest sibling Virgina. I even searched for all babies born with name Mary, but there were none born with that name on that date in Niagara Falls.