Finding commune / birth certificate

[AngelaGrace56]

Hello could someone help with these translations.

Commune of Gaggio Montano



Domenico Guidotti -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

I was also interested based on the translation does it indicate that Marianna's husband or Domenico's father is still alive? (This would be Domenico Andrea, which is some times referred to as just Andrea). If I'm reading enough correctly mother and son died only about 2 months apart.

Thanks!
D.

Death No 28: Domenico Guidotti
Registered Gaggio Montano: 6 June 1932
Domenico Guidotti, an ocologiaio (ocologist?) died 8.35, yesterday in the house in Via Giulio Giordani, No 11, at the age of 47. He was born and living in Gaggio Montano, the son of Andrea, a farmer, and of the deceased Marianna Cheli, who had both lived in Gaggio Montano when living. He was the husband of Zita Dina Tomasi.


Great, to see these later records on line.

Angela

I think I've misread Domenico's profession. I think it should be "orologiaio" - a watchmaker. Maybe someone else can check.

Angela

[mmogno]

I think I've misread Domenico's profession. I think it should be "orologiaio" - a watchmaker. Maybe someone else can check. Sì, certo: orologiaio.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

I think I've misread Domenico's profession. I think it should be "orologiaio" - a watchmaker. Maybe someone else can check. Sì, certo: orologiaio.

Angela

Great. Thank you.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Thank you Angela!

These were time intensive ones to find. They structured these archives together in 5 year blocks, with what looked like another small area, so there were ten 1 year indexes in each set to find. The 1 year ones are much more user friendly but happy they are there to actually search. On two finding their two children.

Thanks!
D.

You are very welcome for the help.

Re the films you are searching, which are in five year blocks, if you click on the eight squares to the left (under the word Image) that will bring up lots of little images (thumbnails). From there you should be able to see quite clearly where each new year begins, and also where the indices are for each year. You may already be doing this, but thought I’d mention it in case you are not.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Hello could someone help with these translations.

Commune of Gaggio Montano

Marianna Cheli -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

Domenico Guidotti -
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

I was also interested based on the translation does it indicate that Marianna's husband or Domenico's father is still alive? (This would be Domenico Andrea, which is some times referred to as just Andrea). If I'm reading enough correctly mother and son died only about 2 months apart.

Thanks!
D.

Sorry, I didn't have time to answer these questions earlier when I translated the two death records.

Yes, according to the two death records, Marianna's husband/Domenico's father was still living, and you are correct that mother and son died two months apart.

If you look at Domenico Guidotti’s Death Record you will see the word “fu” before his mother’s name i.e. “fu Cheli Marianna” which translates to “was Cheli Marianna” which we understand to mean that she was deceased. If Andrea was deceased there would either be the word “fu” (was – which is singular) or “furono” (were – which is plural) - which would be indicating that both parents were deceased.

If you look at Marianna’s Death Record you’ll note the word “fu” before each of her parents names (which we would probably expect anyway, given her age at death) We know that her husband, Domenico Andrea Guidotti, is still alive because the record refers to her as the “wife” ("moglie” of Guidotti Domenico Andrea. If he was already deceased it would say the “widow” (vedova) of........Andrea”

In other records it may have the words defunto/defunta – deceased - either before or after a deceased person’s name. There are other words as well which are used to indicate that a person is deceased.

I hope this answers your questions.

Angela

[deigo1]

Hi Angela, I haven't been able to locate it yet.

T. found the four children referenced in the marriage certificate, in the earlier post because they want to make them legitimate which was super helpful the commune did that
1 - Battista born July 1883
2 - Domenico Giovanni born December 1884
3 - Anna Caterina born July 1889
4 - Luigi Simone born July 1892

I have all the info on Battista he married and died in the US. I have his actual death certificate, which was signed by "Lewis" Guidotti, who I believe is Luigi.

Domenico Giovanni death certificate I found by chance thinking it was his dad, but the only other details I have on him aside from the birth notation is that he did make a trip through ellis.

Anna nothing further yet.

Luigi's birth I was wondering if you could translate. I think I found his death in the US, but the part that is off is the birth month. Everything that I've found he lists March as his birth, not July.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

Thanks D!

[AngelaGrace56]

Birth No 31: Luigi Simone Guidotti
Registered Gaggio Montano on 24 April 1892

Appearing was Andrea Guidotti, 41 yo, possidente (landowner), living in Gaggio, who reported that at 6 am, on 20 of the current month, in the house in Gaggio, No 246, from his union with a woman who was not married , not related to him, nor akin to him, within the degree that would prevent the baby from being recognised, was born a baby boy who he did not present and gave his name to be Luigi Simone.

The reason that the father, Andrea, was dispensated from presenting the baby was because the baby was in “little” health so “poor health” or “fragile”

Side Note dated 21 March 1893: Luigi Simone Guidotti was legitimised by Domenico Andrea Guidotti and Marianna Cheli through their marriage celebrated on 21 March 1893.

Hi Angela, I haven't been able to locate it yet.
Thanks D!

You've lost me. Are you referring to Domenico Guidotti and Zita Dina Tomasi's marriage record?

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

Following on from previous post, Luigi Simone's date of birth is 20 April 1892. His parents marriage record states the registration date of 24 April 1892 (there is no mention there of July?).

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

Angela

[deigo1]

Oops yes, I thought I was replying to your question on the marriage, but I did not see the posts that had went on to the other page. Thank you for the explanation on the deceased /widow, that is so helpful google translate doesn't do a good job of translating what appears as "dafu or dallfu" to my eye. I also had missed that there was that thumbnail button I was going page by page! Appreciate the translation and confirmation on the birth month around Luigi.

Luigi (Louis) appears to think his birthday is March 21, 1892

[AngelaGrace56]

Oops yes, I thought I was replying to your question on the marriage, but I did not see the posts that had went on to the other page. Thank you for the explanation on the deceased /widow, that is so helpful google translate doesn't do a good job of translating what appears as "dafu or dallfu" to my eye. I also had missed that there was that thumbnail button I was going page by page! Appreciate the translation and confirmation on the birth month around Luigi.

Luigi (Louis) appears to think his birthday is March 21, 1892

Are you absolutely certain that this is the correct Luigi on this Registration Card? It's interesting that he hasn't included his middle name and that he has quoted his birth place as Bologna rather than Gaggio Montano, Bologna. Was he married in Italia or the US? Do you have any other documents with his signature on it to compare?

Edit to Add:

Are you able to post Battista’s death record. You mentioned that it was signed by a “Lewis” Guidotti? This registration says “Louis” Guidotti.


Angela

[deigo1]

This is a collage of sorts, the one that I believe is for sure him is the top line of going through Ellis. Age, town, father all line up, but maybe the important piece is he is going to Farmington, ILL. The town at least align to his draft and naturalization card assuming its him. I also included Domenico's draft card, which shows him in Farmington as well.

Maybe just a weird coincidence the parents marriage date of March 21, is the date he lists as his birth date?

[AngelaGrace56]

This is a collage of sorts, the one that I believe is for sure him is the top line of going through Ellis. Age, town, father all line up, but maybe the important piece is he is going to Farmington, ILL. The town at least align to his draft and naturalization card assuming its him. I also included Domenico's draft card, which shows him in Farmington as well.

Maybe just a weird coincidence the parents marriage date of March 21, is the date he lists as his birth date?

Thanks for posting the documents. I've located brother Domenico's birth record. He obviously knew his birthdate. There is annotation to say that in 1922 he married a Maria Castella? which differs from the name written on the draft card you've posted here. It has his wife recorded as Josephine Guidotti? Possibily Maria Castella died?

Birth No 88: Domenico Guidotti
Registered Gaggio Montano: 31 December 1884

Appearing was Andrea Guidotti, 35 yo, landowner, living in Gaggio, who reported that at 1 pm, on 28 December 1884, in the house in Gaggio, No 294, from his union with an unmarried woman, not related to him, or akin with him etc was born a baby boy who he did not present to the official and to whom he gave the name Domenico Giovanni.
There’s a note at the base of the record to say that the father was dispensated from presenting the baby because of the harsh season.

Side note: On 6 July 1922, in Gaggio Montano, marries with Maria Castelli?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

This is all I can do on this at the moment. Maybe, someone else can take a look and see what they think about the date of birth discrepancy.

Angela

[AngelaGrace56]

1922 Marriage No 17: Domenico Guidotti and Maria Castelli: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

1927 Marriage No 19: Domenico Guidotti (widower) m Zita Dina Tomasi: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

Angela

[deigo1]

Some more great detective work, I was not expecting a third marriage for Domenico! Josephine is (Giuseppina Gualandi) from Gaggio Montano - US marriage. I need to get the links/ images I found late last night on ancestry and I will put together a follow on post for him.

Good news is I found Louis/Luigi petition for US citizenship. It does state that he is from Gaggio Montano entered the US has Luigi, no parents names, but the ship name / arrival date, etc match the one from Ellis, where he lists his father as Andrea. (I included the full image from ellis, Luigi's line is the bottom one).


https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1989159

It's across three slides 128, 129,130.

Thanks!
D.

[deigo1]

1922 Marriage No 17: Domenico Guidotti and Maria Castelli: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

1927 Marriage No 19: Domenico Guidotti (widower) m Zita Dina Tomasi: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797

Angela

Death of Maria Castelli
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cc=1947797