Birth Certificate - Alfonso Pica

[ralph.pica]

Hello Everyone!

I am new here but have seen all the great research work done here in other threads.

I am trying to acquire Italian Dual Citizenship, and I could really use help locating my great grandfather's birth certificate. A few details are unclear and have made it a bit difficult for me to continue researching. Some question marks include; uncertainty of his Mother's name, place of birth, and I have a suspicion that the year of birth may be incorrect, but I will include some other details and elaborate more below.

Alfonso (Alphonse) Pica
[familysearch.org LRJT-MGX]

• Born on August 10th, 1897 in Italy

• Arrived in NY from Naples via Spartan Prince on June 14th, 1899 with mother and older sister. The ship manifest stated that he was 10 months old on arrival which either means his date of birth was possibly August 10th, 1898, or the manifest was wrong
  
  Ship Manifest - lines 17-19 http://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/s ... cGciOw==/1

• I believe our family to be from Castellammare di Stabia, but the ship manifest stated he was from or lived in Casola di Napoli. Which is however close to Castellammare di Stabia. It is possible they stayed there after his father left Italy for the US.

• Father's name was Francesco Pica (09/16/1864-5/5/1939)

• Mother's name was unclear. Maria Giovanna Corbisieri was the name used when they came to the US on the ship manifest. She seemingly did not tend to use Maria and I have seen a multitude of other names: Gianna Corbisieri, Giovanna Corbisieri, Genini Carbonari (this was on Alphonse's Death Certificate), and Genina Boucheri.

Unfortunately my Italian is extremely limited but any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you,
Ralph

[suanj]

Hi Ralph,
Francesco Pica last residence was Gragnano

Francesco Pica

United States Italians to America Index

Name Francesco Pica
Event Type Immigration
Event Date 06 Sep 1898
Event Place New York, New York, New York, United States
Gender Male
Age 33
Birthplace Italy
Occupation Farmer
Ship Name Trojan Prince
Birth Year (Estimated) 1865
Departure Port Unknown
Literacy No
Residence Place Gragnano
Destination Place NEW YORK
Transit or Travel Compartment Staying in the USA [Transit]; Steerage [Travel]
Affiliate Manifest ID 00083105
Affiliate ARC Identifier 1746097

Gragnano is very close to Casola di Napoli... sometime, when the husband went in USA, the wife and children before to follow the husband, stayed from her parents, or parents in law... and could be that Casola was just the last residence on 1899, but Francesco declares Gragnano last residence, so maybe your Alfonso was born in Gragnano....

and abt birthyear, by 1905 census seeming born on 1897:
Francesco Peca Head M 40y Italy
Gioanna Peca Wife F 39y Italy
Carmella Peca Daughter F 16y Italy
Alfonzo Peca Son M 8y Italy
Michele Peca Son M 5y United States
Annie Peca Daughter F 3y United States
Francesco Peca Son M 1y 6m United States

just a suggestion, regards,
suanj

[ralph.pica]

HI Suanj,

Yeah I have Francesco's travel information as well as all the US Census data which all say Alfonso was born in 1897, I was simply suggesting the math of the dates do not really make sense since on his US arrival he should have been almost 2 years old and not 10 months.

Is there any other resource to look for birth? With no luck, I previously checked the birth records of Castellammare di Stabia in 1897 and 1898.

Thanks

[adelfio]

I believe he was born in Gragnano also so Ralph send this email with a photo id to find out if he was born in Gragnano

email:statocivile@comune.gragnano.na.it

Stato Civile
Comune di Gragnano
Via Vittorio Veneto, 15
80054 - Gragnano (NA)
Italy

OGGETTO: richiesta foto copia integrale dell'atto di nascita o l’estratto completo dell’atto di nascita di Alfonso Pica di Francesco

Gentilissima Signora, Gentile Signore,
Mi chiamo YOURNAME Sto facendo una ricerca sui miei antenati e ho bisogno delle informazioni dai vostri registri. I miei antenati provennero da Gragnano. Vorrei sapere di più di loro.
La ringrazio anticipatamente di voler comunicare i costi di spese di riproduzione e postali per atti di nascita di queste persone:
Nome e cognome : Alfonso Pica
Nome e cognome del padre: Francesco PIca
Luogo di nascita: Gragnano
Data di nascita: 1897-1898
Se non avete i registri corrispondenti, potete fornire l’indirizzo dell’archivio dove in cui i registri possano essere trovati?
Nell'attesa della sua risposta le invio cordiali saluti.
YOUR NAME ADDRESS EMAIL PHOTO ID

Marty

[ralph.pica]

Grazie Marty!

I will try to contact them via email.

[suanj]

HI Suanj,

Yeah I have Francesco's travel information as well as all the US Census data which all say Alfonso was born in 1897, I was simply suggesting the math of the dates do not really make sense since on his US arrival he should have been almost 2 years old and not 10 months.

Is there any other resource to look for birth? With no luck, I previously checked the birth records of Castellammare di Stabia in 1897 and 1898.

Thanks

Hi Ralph,
if Alfonso was born on aug 1898 he was 10 months old on May 1899, right? If he wasd born on aug 1897 he was 1 year and 10 months old on may 1899, right? However the age is no very readable on the ship's manifest, and in any case your search is abt the right birthplace, mainly, because the search on 1897 if no helpful, obviously it will be made in the 1898 ... so both the options are probables, and don't having the chance to search in the civil records of this area, we cannot say nothing....
in my preliminary search, I believed no Casola di Napoli but Casola hamlet of Domicella town, Avellino province, because the Corbisieri/Corbisiero surname is most popular in Avellino area than Napoli area.... But then I found Francesco arrival and Gragnano, so the options are Gragnano and Casola di Napoli.... For bad luck no civil records online so we cannot search.....
Best regards,
suanj

[ralph.pica]

Grazie Suanj,

I sent the email to Gragnano that Marty suggested earlier, but do you think I should also do the same to Casola?

My sister will be traveling throughout Campania next week, actually, and I was hoping to provide her some helpful information so she may be able to acquire the birth certificate maybe a bit faster than myself here in the US.

Thanks!

[suanj]

Maybe better to wait Gragnano reply, if negative you send in Casola also... but I read that Marty requested the full copy, the Commune rarely relay because the full copy must be requested in the provincial archive of state, and if no available, well in this case in the Commune, but by payment.. abt the Birth certificate, the law that the interest must be a legal and relevant interest, no just genealogical info, so in the request must be specified the use, so italian citizenship... I believe that Marty can add the use abt Birth certificate, and to cross the "copia integrale" ...
best regards,
suanj

[ralph.pica]

Hi,

I am still waiting to hear back from Gragnano, but I have a quick clerical question as it relates to my Great Grandfather's name. It is apparent that he slowly Americanized his name over the years in the various documents. I expect his birth certificate to state Alfonso, his Naturalization states Alfonse, his marriage might state either Alfonse or Alphonse (still working on acquiring it), and his death certificate states Alphonse. I fully doubt he ever formally changed his name legally. Will this be an issue for me going forward in my ability to try and acquire Dual Citizenship? If so, what can I do to rectify or prevent questions?

Grazie!

Ralph

[adelfio]

It could take up to 30 days for them to respond

Marty

[ralph.pica]

All,

Gragnano was correct!! My sister went to the Commune today and picked up a few copies. Amazing.

I'd like to bump the topic I asked previously though.

It looks like Alfonso slowly Americanized his name on official documents. Is this something I need to correct or can I just note/add addendums? I am doubtful an actual and lawful name change occured. His birth certificate said Alfonso, naturalization and marriage certificate said Alfonse, and his death certificate said Alphonse.

Any thoughts on how I would proceed?

Thank you!

[suanj]

wonderful new!
Gragnano was right... abt the mispelling of first name........ I believe no much important because it is the same italian first name but in american version.. I believe that in the Italian Consulate can say you, the better way to proceed abt that...
Best regards,
suanj

[ralph.pica]

Hi all,

Could someone assist me in translating this birth certificate? The cursive is super difficult to read and I need to make a certified English translation to use in order to correct mistakes made on his death certificate.

Thank you!

High level:

Alfonso Pica born August 13th, 1897 to Francesco Pica and Giovanna Corbisieri in Gragnano. I think the bottom mentioned the official who recorded the information since his family could not read or write.

[Tessa78]

Translated at your other post

https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/language/40408

T.

[ralph.pica]

Yes thanks again. I couldn't find how to close this topic when I saw that there was a more proper sub forum to request that type of information. Apologies.