Old marriage contract translation Di Balsamo (Latin ?)

[erudita74]

pdf 11 and 12 are more supporting documents for the marriage to Caterina Vicedomini. We still have not yet gotten to their actual marriage record, and these documents are reiterating info from previous documents.

pdf 11-Fabrizio requests that he wishes to make matrimony with Caterina Vicedomini (that is the verbatim translation and not proper English). Again, the document mentions that he has been a resident in the hamlet of Pollana (it seems to be spelled as Pollena) for 13 years. It reiterates that Caterina is not a relative, etc, and that there are no church law impediments to the marriage

pdf 12-again mentions his deceased wife and that he's currently not married, not a priest, a monk, member of the religious. It again states that he has not had any other wife since Caterina di Rago, who was his wife, when she was alive. He hasn't been with any other woman.

That's pretty much it. No new info.

[stfrancis]

Thank you.
Yes, it's a lot of pages to repeat the same information but I am very fortunate to have this since it's packed with genealogical information anyway. Even if we don't find the actual marriage we have most of the data. It's actually named a "processetto". I will continue anyway, in case we find more interesting details...

I attached the next 2 pages...

[erudita74]

pdf 13 and 14-The person named at the top of pdf 13 appears to be coming forward to attest to Caterina Vicedomini's free state to fulfill her request to marry Fabrizio. It seems this person has known her since she was a young girl of five. She says she knows that she hasn't had another husband, etc, etc. (i.e., all of the things we previously listed from the other records concerning her free state to proceed with the marriage to Fabrizio). I think the last record concerning Fabrizio, which I told you also reiterated his free state to marry, was also a statement from someone who knew him personally for a long time.

The processetti are the equivalent of the civil records' allegati-supporting documents for an upcoming marriage. The church processetti, and no church records for that matter, are standardized as to their content. Each parish's records are different-content and form at the discretion of the local parish priest.

As to occupations or trades in these church records-I don't recall ever finding these in church records but again, content was at the discretion of the parish priest, so you never know. So far though, I haven't seen any occupations in your records, and I doubt we will see any.

Erudita

BTW, tomorrow (Thurs) is a U.S. national holiday.

[stfrancis]

Thank you very much. I think I read something like the name Pelumba and Salimeo...

Erudita are you still confident that Fabrizio's age was about 30 years?

There are 5 sheets left, but only a bit of content(I think) on 3 of them. I will post them a bit later.

[erudita74]

to answer you about Fabrizio's age-not 30. I misread something when I told you that. I haven't seen his age in any of the records. My classes are resumed this morning and I have to get going. Then have some cooking to do today. Post the rest and I'll try to find time to look them over.

Erudita

[stfrancis]

I know and it's amazing weather, here anyway.
I post the key ones which are left here, they seem much shorter. I see several new names in there.

[erudita74]

ok-I finally understand why there are so many statements concerning the free state of the groom and bride to marry. The four people listed in the last pdf were approved witnesses for the wedding. Two were for the groom and two for the bride. And, we do have occupations for those males and also for the male listed at the top of pdf 17 who was the person who approved the four witnesses.

pdf 9 and 12-statement from witness Antonio Arnone, son of Nicola. from Pollana, he was a tagliamonte-stone cutter-he has personally known Fabrizio for 12 years (or it may say 12 1/2).

pdf 11/12 statement from witness Gaetano Sorrentino, scarpere-I think this is a stone mason; he appears to be friends with Fabrizio for the entire 13 years that he has lived in Pollana and also knew he was a native of Massa

pdf 13 and 14-Dionora Palombo of Naples, daughter of deceased Agnelli and wife of Francesco Salimeo-she personally knew that Caterina Vicedomini was a native of Naples and knows her since she was a young girl of 5

pdf 15/18-Anna de Roggiero, from Naples, daughter of deceased Domenico, and wife of Giuseppe de Maria-she knew that Caterina Vicedomini was native to Naples, born there, and a member of the parish of S Michelarangelo.

The person in pdf 17 who approved the witnesses was Gennaro Mariniello of Naples, son of Anton(io?), and he was a sartore (tailor)-I'm sure there's more to this pdf as to why he had the ability to approve the four individuals as witnesses, and their statements concerning the free state of the spouses to marry, but I can't decipher this.

[stfrancis]

Wow, I don't know how you did that - but you did and thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule during the holiday.

(small detail just for the others looking - I assume you meant pdf 9 & 10, and pdf 15 & 16 in your references...)

So based on this, would it be too big an assumption to say Fabrizio was also a MASON and moved around to find work. (Although the principal witness appears to be a tailor). I do know my grandfather, (several generations later), was a mason in the Naples area, but listed himself as a tailor after arriving in America.

Anyway, we are almost finished. I post the last 2 (SHORT) pages.

[erudita74]

a few quick things, and then this will be out for today, as we are heading to the home of friends today

yes, I should have typed pdf 9 & 10 and 15 and 16. I shouldn't be up at 3 in the morning doing genealogy!

Originally I thought that the occupation of Gaetano Sorrentino, scarpere was that of a shoe repair expert. The word should be derived from the Italian word for shoes, so I'm editing his occupation in pdf 11/12

In pdf 7, I believe, there IS an occupation given for Fabrizio, which I can's seem to accurately decipher to determine its meaning. I also, even previously, saw/see the word ruota there, before his parents' names are given, but I'm not sure what precedes that word, so I don't want to put out there yet what I'm thinking about it. I also want to check with one of the native Italian speakers on the forum this to see if I am thinking correctly before I tell you.

So that is definitely all for today.

Erudita

[EllenCatusco]

I'm having trouble deciphering the abbreviation for the name of the parish in pdf 4. I know it is parish of Saints.... The record is from that parish's book of matrimony, book #3, page 46. Dated Oct 19, 1686 for the marriage between Fabrizio d'Audano (sp?) alias delli Belsamo, son of Gennaro (surname ?) and Giovanna Fierro of the hamlet of Massa di Somma, Naples and Caterina de Rago, daughter of Carlo Antonio (de Rago) and Giulia de Serio of this parish. So Caterina de Rago was Fabrizio's previous spouse.

Erudita

Could any explain the Alias part of his name?? I have run into this on a few searches of my own family.

[erudita74]

I'm sorry, but I haven't yet had a chance to look over the last two pdfs you posted. I'm just surprised, and very disappointed, that the processetti does not contain a baptism record for Fabrizio.

At any rate, I had to reach out to Pippo for a little help with something in pdf 7. Neither of us has been able to determine Fabrizio's occupation, but Pippo did help with deciphering the handwriting in the line before that and, although I already thanked him in private message, I want to again thank him here in open forum. I've been very lucky that, even with his busy schedule, he has always managed to find time to help me. Ancora grazie mille, Pippo.

From Pippo:

"I read Fabrizio lived in Pollena, "in domibus Ill.mi Principis di Ruoto" ("in the buildings of the very illustrious Prince of Ruoto"). I found in Internet that a Prince of Ruoti did actually exist."

Erudita

[stfrancis]

Welcome back.

Well that is very "cool" indeed. And I thank Pippo also!
Fabrizio is a bit of a road block now, and I am not sure where to go from there, will see...of course there is also the question of the name change from D'Audano.

I will be sure to note these comments and eventually try a follow-up or do more research.

(Anyway, just so you know I posted the document concerning his son Giuseppe in another thread. The document is of similar nature I assume, and much shorter thank goodness.)

[PippoM]

Welcome back.

Well that is very "cool" indeed. And I thank Pippo also!

You both are very welcome! I'm sorry, but the thread was so long, and I hadn't read it at all, as I thought there was no issue to solve...

[PippoM]

Neither of us has been able to determine Fabrizio's occupation,

I think I got it!
"Mandese"="Mannese"=" Cart builder/repairer"

https://books.google.it/books?id=R3eib4 ... re&f=false

[erudita74]

Neither of us has been able to determine Fabrizio's occupation,

I think I got it!
"Mandese"="Mannese"=" Cart builder/repairer"

https://books.google.it/books?id=R3eib4 ... re&f=false

Great job, Pippo! I now see that mandese was listed among occupations for Naples in various references on the google books website. At one point, I was considering that the third letter might be an "n," but I still wasn't getting anywhere deciphering that occupation. The only time I have seen the occupation in a record, but as "mannese," was when suanj deciphered it at some point and gave an explanation on the forum. I haven't been able to find an English definition anywhere online but still have her explanation saved on my computer.

I'm also very familiar with what probably is a similar occupation in Sicily, but the terminology is different, and the carts there were highly decorated, very ornate, and there were regional differences between them, in terms of what was painted on them. One could actually determine a cart's place of origin in Sicily, just by the designs on the cart. My understanding though is that decorating the carts in such a fashion was unique to Sicily, so I wouldn't expect the appearance of the carts in the Naples area to be the same, although their function was probably was.

And, I was just looking at the town of Pollena Trocchia's website, and the historical info about that town there. It seems that this town was rich in nobility, which coincides with what you deciphered on the previous line in that pdf.

Again, many thanks for all of your help with this.

Erudita