Gammaro family

[cgammaro]

Thanks for the advice suanj, happy new year for you too.

I will write to San Lucido and wait on the reply, hopefully they will find his birth there.

I'm also going to open a new question in the forum about my great-grandmother line, cognome Muglia, want to find out more info about her as well. I was told she was also from Calabria, but you know how these things are confusing.

Rosa Muglia born in 16 July 1888 in Italy (unknown city)
Rosa Mugia died in 10 October 1954 in Brazil
her father Michele Muglia born around 1857 in Italy, died 20 December 1931
her mother Luiza Giglio born aroung 1859 in Italy, died 16 January 1929
her father's parents
José (Giuseppe) Muglia and Magdalena Muglia
her mother's parents
Vicente (Vicenzo) Giglio and Conceição (Concetta) Lomonaco

Regards,
Cesar

[suanj]

Hi Cesar,
Michele Muglia was born in Guardia Piemontese town, in Cosenza province, on 16 jul 1852, son of Giuseppe and of Maddalena Condino:
Codice SIAS IT-ASCS-F680258
Ufficio Leva della Provincia di Cosenza, Liste di Leva della classe 1852.Registro numero 20, 
atto numero  -  di pagina 166 sezione  -
Michele Muglia,  iscritto il --/--/----
nato il 16/07/1852 a GUARDIA PIEMONTESE
da Giuseppe Muglia e da Maddalena Condino 
I am pretty sure that is right person, but searching the Birth of Rosa, I cannot find her Birth record... you have the arrival record? Maybe her first name was different...
Regards,
suanj

[cgammaro]

Hi suanj,

First I don't have the exact arrival date of Rosa Muglia and family (Michele Muglia and Luisa Giglio), I just heard she came from Italy with 5 years old, she was born in 16 July 1888. What I also came to find is that her death record say she was born in São Lucci. I'm not sure if that information is correct but it was provided by her son in 1954 when she died.
Would São Lucci be San Lucido? (I suppose not, what a coincidence the couple being from the same city, coming to Brazil in a 5 years interval) etc. Maybe could be Luzzi? I didn't find it available in familysearch.

I created a separated topic for Muglia you can respond in the other one if you don't mind. I found a different record for Michele Muglia, I think the one you found doesn't match the dates, would like to her your opinion.

For Samaritano Gammaro Domenico, I still don't have any info to search.

[Tessa78]

Related thread

https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... 2?start=15

T.

[suanj]

Thanks Tessa, better do not duplicate effort!
Cesar:
Abt Domenico, cross Samaritano and replace Sammarco! And please to remember that in Italy just the people have just the father surname..
Cesar abt Domenico birth please to write in San Lucido, maybe they have the birth record.
Best regards,
suanj

[cgammaro]

Yes, I will do that. I was so excited with the findings yesterday but I thought of that. Shall I write to the comune directly or to archivio di stato di Cosenza?

[cgammaro]

Did you see Maria Carolina was alive when the husband died? We initially thought she was dead before they came to Brazil. I wonder why they came and left her behind...

And thank you once again, your findings and Thessa were essential, I have no word to express How happy I'm. I'm so close to his birth certificate now.

And I'm happy to know the family history!

[cgammaro]

Oh, by the way you read italian right? That update from 1896 is quite long but there is a part that say something about the italian consulate in Sao Paulo, I Wonder what that say and If Domenico went there and If they have any info about him.

[Vicente]

[...] But in Spanish/Portuguese culture (I know because I lived in Mexico), baby boys are given the name of both parents with the mother's name first, in this case, Domenico Sammarco Gammaro. In fact as adults, Mexican men often use the last name of the mother only and drop the father's name.

That is not true for either Spanish naming customs or Hispanic American naming customs. I don't know where you got those facts if you did live in Mexico, because the actual cultural and legal naming structure in Spain and Hispanic American countries is Given name, Father's surname, Mother's surname.
Mexican men (or women) don't drop their father's surname in adulthood (or childhood) to use only their mother's, nor legally nor in everyday use. They use their full names throughout their lives.
If anything, it is the mother's surname that gets dropped when shortening ones name, for the sake of convenience in everyday use.

The only exception to the custom might have been that in Argentina, up until 2006, only the father's surname was given to children, while the mother's surname was optional; but now they follow the Given name, Father's surname, Mother's surname custom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_cu ... ic_America

If you know how to speak Spanish:
Herzog, Tamar. "Nombres y apellidos: ¿cómo se llamaban las personas en Castilla e Hispanoamérica durante la época moderna?"

[Vicente]

[...] But in Spanish/Portuguese culture (I know because I lived in Mexico), baby boys are given the name of both parents with the mother's name first, in this case, Domenico Sammarco Gammaro. In fact as adults, Mexican men often use the last name of the mother only and drop the father's name.

That is not true for either Spanish naming customs or Hispanic American naming customs. I don't know where you got those facts if you did live in Mexico, because the actual cultural and legal naming structure in Spain and Hispanic American countries is Given name, Father's surname, Mother's surname.
Mexican men (or women) don't drop their father's surname in adulthood (or childhood) to use only their mother's, nor legally nor in everyday use. They use their full names throughout their lives.
If anything, it is the mother's surname that gets dropped when shortening ones name, for the sake of convenience in everyday use.

The only exception to the custom might have been that in Argentina, up until 2006, only the father's surname was given to children, while the mother's surname was optional; but now they follow the Given name, Father's surname, Mother's surname custom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_cu ... ic_America

If you know how to speak Spanish:
Herzog, Tamar. "Nombres y apellidos: ¿cómo se llamaban las personas en Castilla e Hispanoamérica durante la época moderna?"

[jennabet]

My neighbor in Texas born in Monterrey, Mexico sometimes went by his father's name and sometimes he went by his mother's name but he never used both names together. In Argentina up until 2006, children received their father's name only because the Argentinian population was/is at least 70% Italian origin and this is the same naming structure used for children in Italy. Italians also brought the Tango with them to Argentina as well as the best football players.

[cgammaro]

Thanks Tessa, better do not duplicate effort!
Cesar:
Abt Domenico, cross Samaritano and replace Sammarco! And please to remember that in Italy just the people have just the father surname..
Cesar abt Domenico birth please to write in San Lucido, maybe they have the birth record.
Best regards,
suanj

Hi suanj,

Please find my answer to Tessa78, it is actually to both of you!!! I have an amazing finding and need your help please!

Regards,
Cesar

[cgammaro]

Related thread

https://www.italiangenealogy.com/forum/ ... 2?start=15

T.

Hi Tessa78 and suanj,

Today I decided to start researching about my ancestor (great grandfather) Domenico Gammaro in a different way... Decided to look at the church records about his marriage... Look what I found!!!

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903 ... cat=245954

It says he is legitimate child of Salvador Gammaro and Carolina Samaritana. Finally his mother name showed up and we now understand Sammarco indeed became Samaritana.

Another very important information is that it says his parents are already dead. So if she went to the comune to advice that husband have died in 1896, and she is dead in 1902, we have a 6 years range only to look for her death AND very important, if that is not in San Lucido, there is a possibility that she passed away in another city, and that may be the city where Domenico Gammaro was born.

What do you think? Can you assist me?

Regards,
Cesar

[cgammaro]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the inputs. I did find another record of a possible brother of Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro (same mother and father). Maybe that can lead to find something?

SIAS Code IT-ASCS-F680258
Ufficio Leva della Provincia di Cosenza, Enlistment year 1861.Volume number 64,
document number - page 99 section -
Antonio Fortunata Gammaro, enlisted on --/--/----
born on 09/08/1861 to SAN LUCIDO
son/daughter of Francesco Gammaro and of Rosa Verre

Also I know about the following entry in an accommodation for immigrants in Brazil, date 24/02/1888, not sure if it is them but possibly.

http://www.inci.org.br/acervodigital/up ... 08_117.pdf

It is a man, 34 yo in 1888, with his son, 10 yo, Salvatore Gammaro and Domenico Gammaro. "Estado" says C for casado (married) and S for solteiro (single). So if it is them, Salvatore didn't change his name, declared himself married, but still, where is the birth record of Samaritano Gammaro Domenico and what date?

Same date 24/02/1888 Giovanni Gammaro was in the accommodation, not sure if they were part of the same family but posting it anyway.

http://www.inci.org.br/acervodigital/up ... 08_118.pdf

Thanks guys really appreciate the help!

Regards,
Cesar

Hi Cesar,
In same trip also a Sammarco.
I don' t know if Maria Carolina died in Calabria or went in Brasil later, io don' t know. I don' t know where was born Domenico, I no found the birth record in San Lucido.
Just I wrote that, second my idea, the Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro found is your ancestor, very probably, and the his wife seeming Sammarco.
Now second my opinion this is your ancestor, and anyone is free to think differently. I think that he was born in San Lucido, Cosenza, Calabria,IT.
What was his life after the marriage I don' t know. Just, having made many searches in Cosenza province, I can say that was usual that a farmer, no landowner, moving in different town, with wife, because hired by a landowner, to work, and so the family' s life was in this other Commune. Also my grandmother had similar situation, and many her siblings were born in different birthplace.
So I repeat, and I mean Calabria region: that the marriage record found could be of your right ancestors; that Maria Carolina maiden name is Sammarco on the record. That I am positive abt the spelling, because I found just a Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro, but married to a Sammarco no Samaritana/Samaritano and this surname, don' t existed in Calabria region at this time, and maybe also currently, I don' t searched abt that. That in San Lucido I cannot find Domenico birth. I am positive abt the arrival, but I cannot find in same trip Maria Carolina. So maybe she arrived later, or died, who know, I have no idea if her destiny...
so, anyone here can help us in the search, and any help is welcome!
suanj

I just found out that Antonio Sammarco was the brother in law of Salvatore. Now it makes sense they were in the same hostelry on same date after arrival.

[cgammaro]

Hi All,

Long time since my last post and I'm still searching for the birth record of my great grandfather Domenico Gammaro and the death act of his mother Maria Carolina Sammarco (Gammaro).

I went to the Family Search History Center and I was able to find his father (Salvatore Fortunato Gammaro (04/04/1853) birth and his mother birth (Maria Carolina Sammarco 25/12/1856).

Next event is the 1879 marriage, but still I haven't found Domenico birth which should be around 1879.

Do we have any new repository with information about Cosenza maybe or any other place I could search? Maybe somewhere I could locate his departure data?

Regards,
Cesar