Hit a Roadblock. Thoughts?

[warriorrabbit]

I've made reasonably decent headway on my maternal grandmother's side, but I have been stuck on my maternal grandfather's side for months. I need a little guidance.

To recap:

Initially we thought his family was from Mazzarra Sant' Andrea, but so far it seems all of my grandfather's siblings were born in Mazzarra, but the parents were from elsewhere. I found the birth records for all the kids, including a later entry for my grandfather (who was born during the family's very brief stay here).

The people in question are Celestino Ferlazzo and Concetta Alosi.

Checking through the films for Mazzarra, I found that:

In over 30 years of marriage records, the only Ferlazzo marriage in Mazzarra was Ignazio Ferlazzo and Maria Simone.
In over 30 years of birth records, the only Ferlazzo children born in Mazzarra were to Ignazio and his wife, and to Celestino and his wife.
Both Celestino and Ignazio have first sons/daughters named Giuseppe and Nunziata.
There appears to be about a year's age difference between Ignazio and Celestino.
Ignazio's marriage record indicated he was from Gioiosa Marea, with parents named Giuseppe and Nunzia.

So, I assumed they were brothers.

I looked in the records for Gioiosa Marea. There I found only Ignazio's birth record, not Celestino's. However, although the film was supposed to cover the period of 1865-1886, in fact 1873 and 1874 were missing. Those would have been Celestino's years. (Well, actually, his age on his kids' birth records indicate 1872-1875, but since 1873 and 1874 are missing...)

I looked through the Gioiosa Marea pubblicazioni for Celestino and Concetta's marriage. Celestino and Concetta's first child was born in 1897. The pubblicazioni only go to 1895. They probably were married in 1896.

Gah! I know Concetta had a brother named Filippo. Filippo and his kids Carmelo, Ercole, and Lina lived in Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto in the 1950s; my mother met them. There are still Alosis in Barcellona named Carmelo, Filippo, etc. I looked for a marriage record for Celestino Ferlazzo and Concetta Alosi in Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto, in case that was where the Alosis hailed from. Didn't find one.

On a whim, based on the paginebianchi Alosi name distribution, I tried Furnari and Milazzo marriages for that time in those towns. No go.

Once I looked for her birth record in Barcellona (since it's pretty clear, w/o a marriage record, that they didn't marry in Mazzarra), but in truth I don't know when she was born and there were a lot of Concetta Alosis.

The only thing I haven't looked through are the Allegati for Mazzarra, but if there's no marriage record, I didn't see the point.

What are my options? Is there a way to find Italian death records after 1909, maybe with something handy like our SSDI? I'm sure the family was living in Mazzarra, and I'm pretty darn sure my grandfather's father was dead when my grandfather returned to the US in 1924. Apparently he died young (40s or 50s) and of heart failure. I know he was still alive in 1909, when his youngest was born (in his late 30s).

The only other thing I can think of right now is an Alosi mail bomb -- sending a letter to every single Alosi living in Barcellona and asking if the names sound familiar.


Gioiosa Marea
Nati, matrimoni, morti 1872 Nati 1865-1886 FHL International Film 1801813 Items 4-6
Nati 1905-1909 Pubblicazioni 1866-1895 Matrimoni 1867-1903

Mazzarra Sant'Andrea
Matrimoni 1876-1909 Pubblicazioni 1866-1894 FHL INTL Film 1727029
Nati 1866-1909 Matrimoni 1866-1875 FHL INTL Film 1727028 Items 3-5
Allegati matrimoniali 1886-1900 VAULT International Film 1797623 Item 1

Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto
Matrimoni 1878-1908 FHL International Film 1693171
Pubblicazioni 1889-1910 Matrimoni 1866-1872, 1874-1877 FHL International Film 1693170

[Seraphina]

Hi Warriorrabbit,

As the towns and villages you mention are in the Province of Messina, have you tried searching the records in the town of Messina?

Good luck
Seraphina

[warriorrabbit]

Hi Seraphina,

It's a great suggestion, but it just so happens I've got Messina film checked out for my maternal grandmother, and there are almost no Ferlazzos in Messina. Maybe one random one popping up in a thousand or two.

By contrast, Gioiosa Marea had lots and lots of Ferlazzos, but the years he would have been born were missing from the film they were supposed to be on. Too bad, because it seems really, really likely that he would be from there, because I am reasonably sure (even though it's an assumption) that Ignazio is his brother. I would assume then that if the film doesn't have 1873 and 1874, then the actual Stato Civile doesn't have it at all. (Or it would have been on the film.)

Unfortunately, I don't seem to have a lot of options for tracking this side of my family down. It seems like he might be from GM, but there's no record. If he's not from GM, I have no idea where else to look. I have absolutely no idea where Concetta Alosi was from. I thought Barcellona, but there was no marriage record for them there, and it was my understanding couples were married in the bride's parish.

I could guess that her father's name is Carmelo, because my grandfather was the second son.

Unless someone else has a better suggestion, it looks as though sending letters to all the Alosis in Barcellona and asking if they are descended from her brother Filippo is the only option. It doesn't seem like a great option, but...what can you do?

[nuccia]

Have you tried writing a letter to the Comune of the town with the missing records to see if you can obtain the info that way? This worked for me when I was stuck.

Its worth a shot.

[warriorrabbit]

Do you think they might have the record anyhow, when those years were missing from the microfilmed records?

I guess it couldn't hurt. Worst they could do is say no.

[nuccia]

Do you think they might have the record anyhow, when those years were missing from the microfilmed records?

I guess it couldn't hurt. Worst they could do is say no.

It definitely wouldn't hurt. Just because they didn't microfilm the records doesn't mean they don't exist. If you need help in writing a letter just post your question on the translation board and someone will be able to help you. If you choose to use a standard form letter, remember to ask for the birth act and not the birth certificate. It will give you the names of the persons parents and if you are lucky, it may give you the names of the persons grandfathers too.

[Biff83]

I believe the LDS microfilm records were copied from the Province's archives not the town's. So there's a chance that the comune has records for the missing years.

Biff

[geatano_leonardo]

warrior rabbit -
I saw your post about Lemanna women - Lilli vs Nicoletta. You may have went wrong at that point in your search. Someone gav you some research based on Lilli being a different person from Nicoletta.

I am Lillians great grandson and I can say Lillian was Nicoletta.

So if your search branched off at that point on the confusion over if Lillian was also Nicoletta this may be the issue.

[geatano_leonardo]

I forgot to mention Lillian Lamanna (later Nappi) who you were searching when you searched the Lamanna side, they were from Messina Sicily...some of the records may show as Calabria and some translated records also spell the towns in varied way.

be well

[suanj]

Molfetta is in Apulia region...

[dragoni]

some comunes have notary records - have you tried those? you would need someone over there to search for you. the researcher who helps me has found records there that weren't in other documents for some reason. they may have notary records for the years missing form the lds microfilm.

[warriorrabbit]

Hi,

That post re: Nicoletta vs. Lilli is very old. I found out later (just didn't update) that they are one and the same.

Also, the LaMannas are most definitely from Messina. I think you might be confusing Sergio Nappi's place of origin with the LaMannas.

The LaMannas, Zappalas, Meos, Certos, and Lusitanos are all -- without question -- from Messina.

T.

P.S. -- Just to update, but the other side of my family, the Ferlazzo side that this post was about, they were from Gioiosa Marea after all. The damaged films didn't have my great grandfather, but they had some siblings. I wrote to the archive there and asked for info, and they sent me some other siblings -- and Luca helped out, too, by calling and getting the remaining records. (Awesome!)

In fact, it turned out that his parents had 12 children over 20 years, and only about four of them were on the (badly damaged) films. Whew! So that's why I couldn't find him in Mazzarra -- he was in Gioiosa Marea. The guessing I was doing based on his kids' names was in fact correct, but I'm glad I have the paperwork to confirm it. They got married there, too, and not in the bride's home of Mazzarra.

[geatano_leonardo]

Yes Suanj I meant to say one was from Molfetta area of Italy and the other from Sicily not that Molfetta was in Sicily.

Yes warriorrabbit its been so long since I had conversation on the topic, I did confuse the two origins. The memory is the first to go. Sergio was from Molfetta, Lillian from Messina.

[suanj]

ok!

[carubia]

My great-grandmother was Carmela Alosi from Barcellona P.G., so we could be related. But Barcellona probably has the highest number of Alosis in Italy - more than 100 of them.