Help finding immigration record and 1915 and 1920 censuses

[lyn1982]

Found Mary's birth. It shows up now when I search her name, yet wasn't before. It's registered under the surname Ebbo. The other childrens are registered under Abbo. Maybe Ebbo is the original surname after all? It is also the surname Joseph lists for his father on his marriage application in 1918 and surname he used in his 1942 draft record. Both Ebbo and Paris are French surnames interestingly. The surname Ebbo isn't even found any in Italy. Odd though that the family switched to the Abbo name if so, even daughter Mary.

[lyn1982]

The only other Ebbo I can find who was born in Italy is an Anthony Ebbo born about 1892 who settled in PA. Interestingly the birthdate he gives on his WW1 draft registration differs from the birth on his other records. I don't know if Ebbo is the original surname of mine or not (seems weird can't find immigration record if it is), I just thought it weird that here is another Ebbo born in Italy who seems to be giving false information in his records. Anthony's father is stated as being a Peter Ebbo, so if they are related would be cousins rather than brothers. Unfortunately I can't seem to find an exact place of birth for him. He was naturlized I think so maybe I'll be able to find those papers.

[lyn1982]

Found nat papers of the Anthony Ebbo I mentioned. His original surname was Farbo and he was born in Carlopoli, Italy which of course isn't near Rome, so unlikely to be related to mine.

I just keep finding red herrings all around! I don't know how my ancestor can ever be found if he didn't give accurate info and I can't find any siblings or anything of his.

[lyn1982]

Suanj, I visited your website and you seem so knowledgable. Have you ever come across anyone before whos origins were this difficult to trace?

[suanj]

Suanj, I visited your website and you seem so knowledgable. Have you ever come across anyone before whos origins were this difficult to trace?

Yes, but the italian surname was a bit most more certain…

we cannot find his arrival, as we do not know what his real Italian surname was.
The marriage certificate does not help much, because the surname had already changed. The same on the WWI draft registration card, either one or the other makes no difference, since however the dates of birth on them do not match those on the death certificate. But on the death certificate the information was provided by the survivors, and many years had passed since Giuseppe had left Italy, and the memory had faded.

It could help the 1915 census that would give the information closest to the date of his arrival, but how to look for it and where. You said you didn't find Lyons and not in Niagara Falls.
But Giuseppe came to the USA! He will have reached some relatives, some friends. He probably emigrated for not doing military service, among the young Italian bachelors, was the first cause of emigration, in addition to poverty of course.
Needs to continue the search ... but no many other sources where to search…

Best regards,
suanj

[suanj]

My perplexity is also abt the marriage… because is very strange that a man of Rome( or area) to marry a sicilian woman… I believe that Josephine Congelosi (Cangelosi) was of sicilian parents… no very rare, but enough rare.. the sicilians to marry with other sicilians.. or calabreses...

[lyn1982]

Yes, but the italian surname was a bit most more certain…

Is it possible Ebbo could be the original surname and that the reason for not finding the manifest could be that he was a stowaway? Though Ebbo seems to not even exist as a surname in Italy so I suppose this is unlikely.

we cannot find his arrival, as we do not know what his real Italian surname was.
The marriage certificate does not help much, because the surname had already changed. The same on the WWI draft registration card, either one or the other makes no difference, since however the dates of birth on them do not match those on the death certificate. But on the death certificate the information was provided by the survivors, and many years had passed since Giuseppe had left Italy, and the memory had faded.

In your opinion would the surname be likely something completely different, possibly not even sounding or looking simular? Wondering if in your opinion this seems to be an intentional surname change or just a case of it getting changed due to his illiteracy.

Regarding the 1915 census, I thought of going and looking at all Joseph's born 1894-1896 in Italy and residing in Lyons or Niagara, but there are far too many (more in Niagara by far, but Lyons has it's fair share too). I did before go through all of Lyon's census before, but I didn't note down every Joseph, I ignored any whos surnames didn't seem at least somewhat similar to Abbo, Ebbo or Abballe. And here is the problem, if his surname was completely changed, then it stands to reason his first name likely was as well, right?

But on the death certificate the information was provided by the survivors, and many years had passed since Giuseppe had left Italy, and the memory had faded.

I don't think anyone really knows anything beyond "he had a brother who stayed in Italy. More is known about Josephines family as she had several siblings who did immigrate. Joseph himself was a kind man according to what I heard, but of course, he died long before I was born so I never met him. I think he could have been a stowaway though, I have this really hilarious newspaper article from the 1960s about him driving into a military base, then continuing to drive once warning shots were fired. When confronted by cops he claimed that he thought he was making a turn onto Niagara Falls BLVD. Regardless, I'm just now trying to get into contact with a branch of the family I haven't before, grandchildren from Joseph's eldest son, perhaps they will know something. Probably not if other of his grandchildren don't but may as well try.

[lyn1982]

My perplexity is also abt the marriage… because is very strange that a man of Rome( or area) to marry a sicilian woman… I believe that Josephine Congelosi (Cangelosi) was of sicilian parents… no very rare, but enough rare.. the sicilians to marry with other sicilians.. or calabreses...

Never knew this was rare, though I've heard how northern italians discriminated against southern, Rome though I thought was in between south and north and not caught up in that. Their address is listed as the same on the marriage certifcate, that's the thing I thought was weird, living together before marriage in those days. Maybe he was from her area in Sicily (Cerda) and her family didn't approve of him so upon arrival to the US he lied about his origins and changed his surname? Though if this is the case it doesn't make sense why they didn't marry sooner. If he really arrived in 1913 like obituary states, then that's a whole 5 years in the US before they married. Or is there perhaps an area in Sicily also called Rome that he could actually be from?

[lyn1982]

Regarding Joseph, I just realized something, when checking my records. Josephine didn't come through Ellis Island, she arrived in Boston with her father, in spite of the fact that they were heading to her brother (it says friend but Battista Congelosi was her brother) in Niagara Falls, NY. I've been searching Ellis Island extensively when perhaps Joseph didn't even come through there, I'm sure feeling stupid now. Also odder, she has numbers I think indicating that she was naturlized? https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/87 ... 3_192-0268 But according to census she wasn't, nor was was Joseph. I wonder if there is any way to find this naturalization record online. I know NYC and Pennsylvania records are easily accessible online, but I'm not sure about WNY. edit: the note says 1941, so that's why all censuses say not naturlized. Can you take a look please? That note is for her and not her father, right?

[suanj]

It seemed to me, like someone who escapes from something, who doesn't want to be recognized ... I thought it was for military service, not done, but could be other. I don't think he arrived illegally. I think instead he may have had other types of problems. At this point we can exclude the death certificate, because the data are rarely reliable, on the marriage certificate, I see that apart from the surname of Giuseppe, already changed, the witnesses and the reverend seems to have Sicilian surnames .. And therefore it does not help, because Joseph declares what he wants. But I believe that the name of the mother is right and also that of the father, as well as his first name. He might have lied about the age and spelling of his last name.
The fact that it is not found, on the 1920 census together with his wife and daughter, means that he probably changed his name to the census, but at least he had to live at the same address, but you tell me you can't find him. It seems that from 1930 his situation was more stable and so until his death.
This means that he may have had problems both in Italy and in the first years of his stay in the USA. We have no where to look, I have done a lot of extensive research, but I haven't found anything related to your Giuseppe.
suanj

[suanj]

Old italian proverb "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi= wife and oxes of your town" means: take a wife and buy oxes/cows only in your town ( or near area)… to not run into a rip-off... abt the oxes/cows.. instead for the wife, the man wanted same culture, same dialect, or similar, same cooking, same education.. or similar… but now the things are different…
best
suanj

[lyn1982]

It seemed to me, like someone who escapes from something, who doesn't want to be recognized ... I thought it was for military service, not done, but could be other. I don't think he arrived illegally. I think instead he may have had other types of problems. At this point we can exclude the death certificate, because the data are rarely reliable, on the marriage certificate, I see that apart from the surname of Giuseppe, already changed, the witnesses and the reverend seems to have Sicilian surnames .. And therefore it does not help, because Joseph declares what he wants. But I believe that the name of the mother is right and also that of the father, as well as his first name. He might have lied about the age and spelling of his last name.
The fact that it is not found, on the 1920 census together with his wife and daughter, means that he probably changed his name to the census, but at least he had to live at the same address, but you tell me you can't find him. It seems that from 1930 his situation was more stable and so until his death.
This means that he may have had problems both in Italy and in the first years of his stay in the USA. We have no where to look, I have done a lot of extensive research, but I haven't found anything related to your Giuseppe.
suanj

Thank you for all the help! That is interesting and you may be right about him trying to escape something. I wonder what though. Never wished I could talk to an ancestor so much! Regarding the 1920 census, I think a lot of people missed that one, didn't they? I have an ancestor on another line whos in both 1915 and 1925 censuses at same address and missing from there in 1920 census, same neighbors and everything. Just like how Joseph's address on marriage record in 1918 and in 1925 census are the same yet he's missing from 1920 census. I even searched child Mary, parents Joseph and Josephine both born in Italy and residing in Niagara Falls and there wasn't any matches. So he must have missed being counted is my theory.

[lyn1982]

Old italian proverb "moglie e buoi dei paesi tuoi= wife and oxes of your town" means: take a wife and buy oxes/cows only in your town ( or near area)… to not run into a rip-off... abt the oxes/cows.. instead for the wife, the man wanted same culture, same dialect, or similar, same cooking, same education.. or similar… but now the things are different…
best
suanj

That's interesting. In your opinion than is Joseph likely from Sicily and all the locations locations that he made up? The "Aladri" location he gives in his SS card AP is especially odd than if that is the case, as it matches so close to Alatri. I wonder if I should try to look for his birth in Cerda where Josephine was born even. Also on his 1942 draft registration, his Complexion is listed as "dark", his eyes brown and hair black. That seems sicilian to me, but I don't know how likely it would be to have a dark complection and black hair and be from northern or central Italy.

But surely if they knew each other before they would have married sooner then 1918. Both arrived in 1913, Josephine according to her manifest and Joseph according to his obit. Would Josephine's Naturlization papers have info on Joseph? Not sure how to get them, posted the manifest of Josephine with the numbers on it a few posts ago. Never would have thought to relook at her manifest until you mentioned how it was odd someone from Rome marrying a sicilian. Thought I might find him on the manifest with her running away together lol, forgot she had immigrated with her father.

[suanj]

if Giuseppe didn't want to be found, he could have provided false information.
I exclude the info on the death certificate ... let's say they have a very low probability that they are true ...
99% of the marriage certificate can be true.
He would never have lied to marriage.
We must look for the WWI draft registration card, we found 2 possible names, but there may be some others.

we can remove Scrofano birthplace, because there is no Giuseppe among the born. I have tried very well and it is not there. There is no Monte San Giovanni Campano.

We do not know if 1913 is actually also HIS immigration year.
There may be something about Josephine's naturalization, as well as the declaration of intentions.
Best,
suanj

[lyn1982]

if Giuseppe didn't want to be found, he could have provided false information.
I exclude the info on the death certificate ... let's say they have a very low probability that they are true ...
99% of the marriage certificate can be true.
He would never have lied to marriage.
We must look for the WWI draft registration card, we found 2 possible names, but there may be some others.

Thank you for all the help and looking so extensively! Greatly appreciate all the help. I know he must have had his reasons, but I sure wish my ancestor would have provided accurate information.

we can remove Scrofano birthplace, because there is no Giuseppe among the born. I have tried very well and it is not there. There is no Monte San Giovanni Campano.

Thank you for looking. Actually Scrofano is missing birth records 1894-1900, so would the 10 year index there even include him if he was born there?

We do not know if 1913 is actually also HIS immigration year.

His obituary does claim that as his immigration date. Though I suppose it could be another false thing he told people which carried over to the point family believed it so much that it ended up in obituary. Perhaps he actually arrived closer to the date of his marriage to Josephine and this is why he can't be found in the 1915 census.

There may be something about Josephine's naturalization, as well as the declaration of intentions.

I hope so! I contacted Niagara County historian website in hopes they can tell me how to aquire the naturlization record. I don't know if the numbers in the manifest mean Josephine was naturlized on her own, or if that means Joseph was and she was too by default. Either way my hopes are the papers will have a date of arrival and ship name for him. I could then research the Joseph's matching his age on said ship and try to figure out which one is mine. Not sure there is even any hope of there being this info on the manifest given he gave fake info on his birthdate and surname in everything else, but I suppose it's my only hope.

One more question, would it be odd for a Sicilian to marry anyone who wasn't Sicilian, or just other Italians? I mean is the oddity of their marriage the fact that a person supposedly from Rome married a Sicilian, or vice versa, or both? Asking because based upon DNA evidence I think Joseph could have French, British or Irish ancestry. I'd long thought I might even have a break in my tree on his line given the odd DNA matches I have. Matches that I know match on my paternal grandmothers side that aren't Italian, etc, several pointing to an Irish man from the 1800s. The matches are 20-40cm matches, I wonder now if that is high enough for this Irish man to be a 2nd cousin of Joseph's or some similar relation. I think both Joseph's parents did live in Italy and did know the language and customs, but I think perhaps their parents have recent ancestry not 100% italian. I do have spotty evidence to support this, someone of the Irish surname that keeps matching me did in fact immigrate to Rome in the 1820s and low cm matches to the wife of this mans line, who was a British woman. My thoughts are this couple are grandparents or great-grandparents of Josephs.